Discussion:
Tamman Temperature
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s***@hotmail.com
2005-10-03 10:14:03 UTC
Permalink
The October issue of the American Fireworks News contains another in a
series of articles from the Kosankes. This latest entry, in part,
mentions something called the Tamman temperature of potassium chlorate
and the potential for accidental ignition. I had never heard of this
effect prior to reading this issue, and I am curious as to if this is
mentioned in Conkling or Hardt? Does this particular temperature
warrant yet another chlorate admonition, or is it best regarded as
being additional volumes of gaseous bloviation being liberated from the
"overinflated balloon"?

Scott
Alan Yates
2005-10-03 13:57:41 UTC
Permalink
The Tamman temperature is generally half the melting temperature and is
considered the point at which sintering begins in ceramics materials.
How this relates to Chlorate decomposition I am unsure, but I know oxide
surface catalytic effects are important in sintering...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The October issue of the American Fireworks News contains another in a
series of articles from the Kosankes. This latest entry, in part,
mentions something called the Tamman temperature of potassium chlorate
and the potential for accidental ignition. I had never heard of this
effect prior to reading this issue, and I am curious as to if this is
mentioned in Conkling or Hardt? Does this particular temperature
warrant yet another chlorate admonition, or is it best regarded as
being additional volumes of gaseous bloviation being liberated from the
"overinflated balloon"?
Scott
--
Alan Yates
http://www.vk2zay.net/
The Moon is New
Leo
2005-10-03 14:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Yates
The Tamman temperature is generally half the melting temperature and is
considered the point at which sintering begins in ceramics materials.
How this relates to Chlorate decomposition I am unsure, but I know oxide
surface catalytic effects are important in sintering...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The October issue of the American Fireworks News contains another in a
series of articles from the Kosankes. This latest entry, in part,
mentions something called the Tamman temperature of potassium chlorate
and the potential for accidental ignition. I had never heard of this
effect prior to reading this issue, and I am curious as to if this is
mentioned in Conkling or Hardt? Does this particular temperature
warrant yet another chlorate admonition, or is it best regarded as
being additional volumes of gaseous bloviation being liberated from the
"overinflated balloon"?
Scott
Alan,
I noticed the same thing. When I did an internet search for a
definition I couldn't find one, and most of the references to Tamman
temperature related to ceramics. Luckily I recalled Conkling had much
to say about melting points vs ignition temperatures. Regarding the
Tamman temperature, Conkling states in part that:

"Tamman proposed that diffusion of a mobile species into a crystalline
lattice should be "significant" an an a-value of 0.5 (or halfway to the
melting point, on the Kelvin scale). At this temperature, later termed
the Tamman temperature, a solid has approximately 70% of the vibrational
freedom present at the melting point, and diffusion into the lattice
becomes probable. If this is the approximate temperature where
diffusion becomes probable, it is therefore also the temperature where a
chemical reaction between a good oxidizer and a mobile, reactive fuel
becomes possible. This is a very important point from a safety
standpoint - the potential for a reaction may exist at surprisingly low
temperatures, especially with sulfur or organic fuels present. Table
5.2 lists the Tamman temperatures of some of the common oxidizers. The
low temperatures shown for potassium chlorate and potassium nitrate may
well account for the large number of mysterious, accidental ignitions
that have occured with compositions containing these materials."
(From Conkling's COP, page 101)

Leo
Leo
2005-10-03 14:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The October issue of the American Fireworks News contains another in a
series of articles from the Kosankes. This latest entry, in part,
mentions something called the Tamman temperature of potassium chlorate
and the potential for accidental ignition. I had never heard of this
effect prior to reading this issue, and I am curious as to if this is
mentioned in Conkling or Hardt? Does this particular temperature
warrant yet another chlorate admonition, or is it best regarded as
being additional volumes of gaseous bloviation being liberated from the
"overinflated balloon"?
Scott
Since I wouldn't pay good money to read any of the Kosanke's "research",
I don't know the exact content of the article you mentioned. I wouldn't
be too surprised though if their latest blast of flatulence was quite
similar to pages 101-103 of Conkling. While talking about the potassium
chlorate/sulfur system and referring to KClO3, Conkling states in part
that "This combination of low Tamman temperature and exothermic
decomposition helps account for the dangerous and unpredictable nature
of potassium chlorate".

Those pages are just a portion of chapter 5 "Ignition and Propagation"
(pages 97-124) and it goes into much more detail than I can relate here.
Basically he's saying though that the melted sulfur can penetrate into
the lattice of the KClO3 before the chlorate has itself melted. In fact
he states that the ignition of chlorate/sulfur occurs 200C degrees below
the melting point of the chlorate. The general points he's trying to
get across in this chapter seem to be that ignition is generally
predictable based on the melting points and decompositive nature of the
reactants, and ignition can occur at lower temperatures than you might
think possible. Also compositions with lower melting point oxidizers
are generally more dangerous because it's easier to reach the ignition
temperature through accidental means.

I don't have time to re-read the whole chapter right now, so I hope I
haven't oversimplified or skewed his conclusions.

Leo
Tim Williams
2005-10-03 17:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo
Those pages are just a portion of chapter 5 "Ignition and Propagation"
(pages 97-124) and it goes into much more detail than I can relate here. >
Basically he's saying though that the melted sulfur can penetrate into > the
lattice of the KClO3 before the chlorate has itself melted. In fact > he
states that the ignition of chlorate/sulfur occurs 200C degrees below > the
melting point of the chlorate.

But what of nitrate? KNO3 and KClO3 melt at nearly the same temperature as
I recall, yet BP is notoriously difficult to ignite by impact.

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Mike Swisher
2005-10-03 18:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Williams
Post by Leo
Those pages are just a portion of chapter 5 "Ignition and Propagation"
(pages 97-124) and it goes into much more detail than I can relate here. >
Basically he's saying though that the melted sulfur can penetrate into > the
lattice of the KClO3 before the chlorate has itself melted. In fact > he
states that the ignition of chlorate/sulfur occurs 200C degrees below > the
melting point of the chlorate.
But what of nitrate? KNO3 and KClO3 melt at nearly the same temperature as
I recall, yet BP is notoriously difficult to ignite by impact.
Tim
The reason for the difference you note is that the heat of decomposition of
saltpetre is +75.5 Kcal/mole, whereas that of chlorate of potash is -10.6. In
other words, saltpetre requires considerable input of energy to persuade it to
give up its oxygen, whereas potash decomposes with the output of energy.
Compared to this gross thermodynamic difference, their similar Tammann
temperatures are of relatively minor importance.

A good bit of theoretical chemistry is required to understand the 'why' of many
pyrotechnic phenomena, yet possession of this knowledge is neither necessary nor
sufficient to make one a good pyrotechnist. Conkling's book is a good short
introduction to these topics.
Leo
2005-10-03 19:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Swisher
Post by Tim Williams
Post by Leo
Those pages are just a portion of chapter 5 "Ignition and Propagation"
(pages 97-124) and it goes into much more detail than I can relate here. >
Basically he's saying though that the melted sulfur can penetrate into > the
lattice of the KClO3 before the chlorate has itself melted. In fact > he
states that the ignition of chlorate/sulfur occurs 200C degrees below > the
melting point of the chlorate.
But what of nitrate? KNO3 and KClO3 melt at nearly the same temperature as
I recall, yet BP is notoriously difficult to ignite by impact.
Tim
The reason for the difference you note is that the heat of decomposition of
saltpetre is +75.5 Kcal/mole, whereas that of chlorate of potash is -10.6. In
other words, saltpetre requires considerable input of energy to persuade it to
give up its oxygen, whereas potash decomposes with the output of energy.
Compared to this gross thermodynamic difference, their similar Tammann
temperatures are of relatively minor importance.
A good bit of theoretical chemistry is required to understand the 'why' of many
pyrotechnic phenomena, yet possession of this knowledge is neither necessary nor
sufficient to make one a good pyrotechnist. Conkling's book is a good short
introduction to these topics.
Hi Mike,
Your post was much more concise than mine as usual, and yes it comes
down to just an endothermic oxidizer vs an exothermic one. I guess it's
true that brevity is the soul of wit.

Thank you for your reply to the Kosanke query. I'm sure that few others
could have said that as eloquently as you did. Some of us who as
newbies unwittingly bought Ken's junk stars and RAP shell kits at the
late 80's conventions had even more reasons to consider him a buffoon!

Leo
Tim Williams
2005-10-03 19:38:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Swisher
The reason for the difference you note is that the heat of
decomposition of saltpetre is +75.5 Kcal/mole, whereas that of
chlorate of potash is -10.6. In other words, saltpetre requires
considerable input of energy to persuade it to give up its oxygen,
whereas potash decomposes with the output of energy.
Ah yes, of course. Thus, diffusion alone brings the reactants together,
while the high energy release allows it to proceed at a lower temperature
than otherwise.

How about KClO4?

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Mike Swisher
2005-10-03 21:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Williams
Post by Mike Swisher
The reason for the difference you note is that the heat of
decomposition of saltpetre is +75.5 Kcal/mole, whereas that of
chlorate of potash is -10.6. In other words, saltpetre requires
considerable input of energy to persuade it to give up its oxygen,
whereas potash decomposes with the output of energy.
Ah yes, of course. Thus, diffusion alone brings the reactants together,
while the high energy release allows it to proceed at a lower temperature
than otherwise.
How about KClO4?
Tim
--
According to Conkling, the Tammann temperature of potassium perchlorate is 168
deg. C., much higher than either that of saltpetre (31 deg. C) or potash (42
deg. C) [Table 5.2 p. 102].

Potassium perchlorate has a heat of decomposition that is slightly exothermic
(-0.68 Kcal/mole) [Table 3.2, pp. 52-3]. This of course lies between the more
negative heat of decomposition of the chlorate, and the strongly positive heat
of decomposition of the nitrate of potassium.

Potassium perchlorate mixtures are less sensitive to shock and friction than
those using the chlorate, but more so than those using the nitrate. Reaction
thermodynamics appear to trump whatever importance the Tammann temperature may
have.
Post by Tim Williams
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Leo
2005-10-03 19:06:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Williams
Post by Leo
Those pages are just a portion of chapter 5 "Ignition and Propagation"
(pages 97-124) and it goes into much more detail than I can relate here. >
Basically he's saying though that the melted sulfur can penetrate into > the
lattice of the KClO3 before the chlorate has itself melted. In fact > he
states that the ignition of chlorate/sulfur occurs 200C degrees below > the
melting point of the chlorate.
But what of nitrate? KNO3 and KClO3 melt at nearly the same temperature as
I recall, yet BP is notoriously difficult to ignite by impact.
Tim
--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Hmmm, I just realized that I've been spelling the name incorrectly. I
see now in the book that Conkling spells it Tammann with two n's. I
can't believe I looked at that word so many times today and missed that!
I guess I just assumed that it was spelled correctly in the original
post. My temperature nomenclature was also a little funky since I
couldn't seem to get a proper degree symbol entered. I think I have
that problem licked now anyway.

You have a good question there Tim. You're going to make me read the
whole chapter yet aren't you? The table shows potassium nitrate with
both a lower melting point and lower Tammann temperature than potassium
chlorate. However nitrate/sulfur ignites way up at 334°C (it's melting
point) and chlorate/sulfur ignites at only 150°C, despite the fact that
the melting point of the chlorate is over 200°C higher at 356°C. So why
does the nitrate/sulfur have a higher ignition temperature than
chlorate/sulfur?

I sorta made up my own word in the earlier post and mentioned the
decompositive nature of the reactants being a factor in their ignition
temperature. What I meant was that some oxidizers are exothermic and
some are endothermic. Well here is some of what conkling says about
potassium nitrate:

"Several examples will be given to illustrate these principles. In the
potassium nitrate/sulfur system, the liquid state initially appears
during heating with the melting of the sulfur at 119°C. Sulfur appears
in nature as an 8-member ring, the S8 molecule. This ring begins to
fragment into species such as S3 at temperatures above 140°C. However,
even with these fragments present, reaction between the sulfur and the
solid KNO3 does not occur at a rate sufficient to produce ignition until
the KNO3 melts at 334°C. Intimate mixing can occur when both species
are in the liquid state, and ignition is observed just above the KNO3
melting point. Although some reaction presumably occurs between sulfur
and solid KNO3 below the melting point, the low heat output obtained
from the oxidation of the sulfur combined with the endothermic
decomposition of KNO3 prevent ignition from taking place until the
entire system is liquid. Only then is the reaction rate great enough to
produce a self-propagating reaction."
(From Conkling's COP, page 101)

BTW... It's a good book. It may not be for everyone of course, but good
for those who want to know what's really happening with published
formulas or maybe want to do some experimenting with creating their own
formulas. I still have one extra copy (mint inside, a little shelf-worn
outside) for $41.95 plus the actual shipping cost. That's less than
half of what AFN sells it for. It will be going up on Ebay soon unless
someone speaks up first.

Leo
donald haarmann
2005-10-03 23:28:43 UTC
Permalink
<***@hotmail.com

| The October issue of the American Fireworks News contains another in a
| series of articles from the Kosankes. This latest entry, in part,
| mentions something called the Tamman temperature of potassium chlorate
| and the potential for accidental ignition. I had never heard of this
| effect prior to reading this issue, and I am curious as to if this is
| mentioned in Conkling or Hardt? Does this particular temperature
| warrant yet another chlorate admonition, or is it best regarded as
| being additional volumes of gaseous bloviation being liberated from the
| "overinflated balloon"?
|
| Scott




-----------
Me thinks most pyro's (including Dr. C.) were introduced to "Hedvall and Tammann effects" by
the late Dr. Joseph McLain in his strange book (he published his lecture notes with
the intent of publishing a full version in the future, sadly his fuse ran out) Pyrotechnics : From
the View Point of Solid State Chemistry. The Franklin Institute Press. 1980.
--
donald j haarmann
----------------------------
"Tramp" explosives or detonators are like
poisonous snakes -- usually strike when least
expected. More often than not, they badly maim
or destroy the eyesight or other parts of the
body of their victims.
US Bureau of Mines
IC7038
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