Discussion:
potassium chlorate and sulphur are darwin's play things
(too old to reply)
donald haarmann
2006-09-23 08:47:34 UTC
Permalink
A FOURTH OF JULY VICTIM.

CHICAGO, July 5.—The strangest [Amen] of the Fourth of July accidents occurred
early last evening at F. A. Thayer’s drug store, in West Madison street. Young
Charles T. Crane went into the store to buy some colored fire. Thayer had none
in stock, but said he would make some, and to that end mixed equal parts of
chlorate of potash, sulphur and oil in a mortar. For a moment young Crane stirred
the compound while Thayer went to wait on a customer. Suddenly the mixture
exploded, throwing Crane about 20 feet, shattering both his arms and nearly
disemboweling him. He was taken to his home and will probable die. The young
man is a son of the Vice-President of the Chicago Dredging and Dock Company.

New York Times, July 6, 1887.

------------------------------------------------
FIRST VICTIMS OF THE FOURTH
Two Men Killed in Toledo, Ohio, While Preparing an Explosive

TOLEDO, Ohio, July 3.—James M. Wilcox and William F. Moench were
instantly killed this afternoon by an explosion of a mixture of chlorate of potash
and sulphur which they were mixing in a mortar for a Fourth of July celebration.
Their bodies were horribly mutilated and the barn in which they were working
was wrecked. Dr. Roy E. Davis and Frank Kehoe, who were near by were badly
hurt.

New York Times, July 4, 1898.
--
donald j haarmann
--------------------------
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope [1688-1744]
Art Velordi
2006-09-23 17:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Wow.

The only thing Id use chlorate/sulphur for would be torpedoes...to be
fired by slingshot at a rock wall.
Post by donald haarmann
A FOURTH OF JULY VICTIM.
CHICAGO, July 5.—The strangest [Amen] of the Fourth of July accidents occurred
early last evening at F. A. Thayer’s drug store, in West Madison street.
Young Charles T. Crane went into the store to buy some colored fire.
Thayer had none in stock, but said he would make some, and to that end
mixed equal parts of chlorate of potash, sulphur and oil in a mortar. For
a moment young Crane stirred the compound while Thayer went to wait on a
customer. Suddenly the mixture exploded, throwing Crane about 20 feet,
shattering both his arms and nearly disemboweling him. He was taken to his
home and will probable die. The young man is a son of the Vice-President
of the Chicago Dredging and Dock Company.
New York Times, July 6, 1887.
------------------------------------------------ FIRST VICTIMS OF THE
FOURTH
Two Men Killed in Toledo, Ohio, While Preparing an Explosive
TOLEDO, Ohio, July 3.—James M. Wilcox and William F. Moench were
instantly killed this afternoon by an explosion of a mixture of chlorate
of potash and sulphur which they were mixing in a mortar for a Fourth of
July celebration.
Their bodies were horribly mutilated and the barn in which they were working
was wrecked. Dr. Roy E. Davis and Frank Kehoe, who were near by were badly
hurt.
New York Times, July 4, 1898.
m***@excite.com
2006-09-24 18:25:39 UTC
Permalink
You use a chlorate/sulphur mixture every time you strike a common
safety match. See Ellern, p. 355, formula 23.

The match industry mixes these chemicals routinely with a good safety
record. Unlike most past & present firework manufacturers, it exercises
rigorous control over all steps of its production process, avoiding
the hazards that await the careless or unwary.
Post by Art Velordi
Wow.
The only thing Id use chlorate/sulphur for would be torpedoes...to be
fired by slingshot at a rock wall.
Post by donald haarmann
A FOURTH OF JULY VICTIM.
CHICAGO, July 5.-The strangest [Amen] of the Fourth of July accidents
occurred
early last evening at F. A. Thayer's drug store, in West Madison street.
Young Charles T. Crane went into the store to buy some colored fire.
Thayer had none in stock, but said he would make some, and to that end
mixed equal parts of chlorate of potash, sulphur and oil in a mortar. For
a moment young Crane stirred the compound while Thayer went to wait on a
customer. Suddenly the mixture exploded, throwing Crane about 20 feet,
shattering both his arms and nearly disemboweling him. He was taken to his
home and will probable die. The young man is a son of the Vice-President
of the Chicago Dredging and Dock Company.
New York Times, July 6, 1887.
------------------------------------------------ FIRST VICTIMS OF THE
FOURTH
Two Men Killed in Toledo, Ohio, While Preparing an Explosive
TOLEDO, Ohio, July 3.-James M. Wilcox and William F. Moench were
instantly killed this afternoon by an explosion of a mixture of chlorate
of potash and sulphur which they were mixing in a mortar for a Fourth of
July celebration.
Their bodies were horribly mutilated and the barn in which they were working
was wrecked. Dr. Roy E. Davis and Frank Kehoe, who were near by were badly
hurt.
New York Times, July 4, 1898.
donald haarmann
2006-09-24 19:22:32 UTC
Permalink
<***@excite.com

| You use a chlorate/sulphur mixture every time you strike a common
| safety match. See Ellern, p. 355, formula 23.
|
| The match industry mixes these chemicals routinely with a good safety
| record. Unlike most past & present firework manufacturers, it exercises
| rigorous control over all steps of its production process, avoiding
| the hazards that await the careless or unwary.
|


----------
Sorry this is a poor comparison. Matches contain only a small amount of sulphur --

"To continue with the specific functions of the chemical ingredients in

matches, we consider next the two purposes in the small percentage of sulfur

in the head formula: It acts as an easily ignitable and hence somewhat

sensitizing fuel and flame-former, and its combustion product is the pungent

but harmless and not nauseating sulfur dioxide (SO2), which masks the much

more unpleasant odor of burning glue. Thus it is a "perfume" of sorts, whose

place can also be taken by powdered rosin." Ellern.



Ellern's #23 uses only 3-5% sulphur no where near the 50% sulphur for example

a binary mixture, along with other ingredients.



Ellern's Railroad Torpedo (Fog signal in GB) contains (ignoring other ingredients)

71% K chlorate and 28% sulphur. And can be quite exciting, as personal experience

had demonstrated!



He do be a report of an explosion of a large amount of chlorate/sulphur, however, no

where as large an amount as that which exploded of all places New York City, 1900,

killing 3 and shattering or gutting 17 buildings!



Bureau of Explosives

19-7119

June 17, 1926

RAILWAY TORPEDOES



[Photo of a railway coach in sorry shape; windows blown out &c..]



See - the - car. Was - the - car - in - a - del-rail-ment? It -was -not; try - again, -

child-ren. Could-it-have- been-an - ex-plos-i-on? You're - right - it - could!



All this is by the way of being sure that the situation is fully understood, even by

those immediately responsible for the not-so-good practice that produced the

results shown in the picture. The day-coach illustrated was not being used as a

carrier of forbidden material packed in an unauthorized manner. On the contrary, it

was as we know, empty and just standing on a yard track minding its own

business. As the matter of fact, this car had nothing to do with what happened,

except in-so-far as it was on the receiving end of the excitement, along with other

cars and the windows of houses for some distance around.



In one end of a box car there were loaded 36,000 railway torpedoes and a

collection of fusees, properly packed, and carefully braced in the car. This care,

however, did not extend to putting "INFLAMMABLE" placards on the car, as

required by I.C.C. Regulations, nor did it prevent the loading in the other end of

the same car, of a collection of heavy castings, forgings, iron pipe, brake shoes,

and other trifling hardware, which, as is customary for that class of material, was

loaded in bulk and unbraced. The whole outfit, in sort, was company supplies.



Well, then, this car, with others, was spotted on a track near the storehouse. In the

meantime, a switcher went after some more cars of material, to go in on the same

track. The switcher proceeded to kick the string consisting of two cars, in along

the stores track where the original car was. There happened to be a low place in

the track near the torpedo car, and that car, persuaded by gravity, began to roll

gently in the direction of the oncoming string. The foremost of the two

approaching cars was a steel gondola loaded with switch material. What with the

liberal weight of iron present, the gondola and the torpedo car came together with

something less then perfect gentleness. An umpteenth of a second later there arose

a large,[?] a very loud noise, and pieces of this and that began sailing through the

air thereabouts like a flock of pigeons. The steel end of the gondola was neatly

removed from its proper place, and flew two hundred feet before it returned to

earth. The passenger car in the picture was 120 feet away from the meeting place,

but that didn't help much, as the picture demonstrates. As already indicated, the

echo of the blast was punctuated by the tinkering of broken glass, as most of the

windows in the vicinity bowed gracefully to the inevitable. We need not explain

why we show no picture of the torpedo car after the bump.



It would seem that the cars didn't strike hard enough to explode the properly

packed torpedoes, but some of the not-exactly-feather-dusters loaded in the far

end of the torpedo car must have trespassed on forbidden territory as a result of

the bump. Railway torpedoes are made to explode; they aren't good for anything

else. The torpedoes in the shipment were not unduly sensitive; but the worm will

turn, and even properly packed torpedoes cannot be expected to regard with

indifference the impact of a few hundred pounds of iron in one chunk. Be that as it

may, these didn't! Aside form the mess that followed this fact, two men were hit by

flying pieces, one man being pretty badly hurt. This was, as usual, NOT the man

who loaded the iron works into the car with the torpedoes!







donald j haarmann

------------------------

"Experience alone is not always a safe index to sound practice.
In one accident investigated by this Bureau, on man was killed
and two women in an adjacent building were injured by the detonation
of a sulphur-potassium chlorate composition in the process of
being mixed, although it was stated that the mixing operation
involved had been used in that plant for 20 years without
mishap. There is of course, the possibility that the new materials
used at the time of the accident may have been different form that
upon which past experience was based. Thus, if the particular
lot of sulphur employed were acid, abnormal sensitivity of the
chlorate-containing mixture might result. IN ANY EVENT, SAFE
EXPERIENCE, EVEN FOR 20 YEARS, WOULD NOT
JUSTIFY A PRACTICE THAT EXPOSED THE MIX OPERATOR
AND OTHERS. [emphsis added] Instead, the hazards should be
recognized and isolation and remote control provided."


US Bureau of Mines Information Circular IC 7340
Hazards From Chlorates and Perchlorates in Mixture With
Reducing Materials
1945
m***@excite.com
2006-09-25 16:59:12 UTC
Permalink
I beg your pardon, but it is NOT a "poor comparison."

Your heading, to wit, "potassium chlorate and sulphur are darwin's play
things," amounted to an unequivocal condemnation of any mixture of the
two substances in any ratio, as did the following post to which I
replied. Neither you nor the subsequent poster acknowledged that there
might be any subtleties distinguishing mixtures containing different
amounts of sulphur, the presence or absence of certain other
ingredients, whether the mixing of them were accomplished wet or dry,
etc.

My observation provoked you to admit that there were such distinctions,
which was precisely the point I intended to make. So, let us put the
usual chlorate/sulphur supersitions aside, and admit that there are
some circumstances in which these two ingredients may be mixed without
undue risk.
Post by donald haarmann
| You use a chlorate/sulphur mixture every time you strike a common
| safety match. See Ellern, p. 355, formula 23.
|
| The match industry mixes these chemicals routinely with a good safety
| record. Unlike most past & present firework manufacturers, it exercises
| rigorous control over all steps of its production process, avoiding
| the hazards that await the careless or unwary.
|
----------
Sorry this is a poor comparison. Matches contain only a small amount of sulphur --
"To continue with the specific functions of the chemical ingredients in
matches, we consider next the two purposes in the small percentage of sulfur
in the head formula: It acts as an easily ignitable and hence somewhat
sensitizing fuel and flame-former, and its combustion product is the pungent
but harmless and not nauseating sulfur dioxide (SO2), which masks the much
more unpleasant odor of burning glue. Thus it is a "perfume" of sorts, whose
place can also be taken by powdered rosin." Ellern.
donald haarmann
2006-09-25 22:23:42 UTC
Permalink
<***@excite.com>

|I beg your pardon, but it is NOT a "poor comparison."
|
| Your heading, to wit, "potassium chlorate and sulphur are darwin's play
| things," amounted to an unequivocal condemnation of any mixture of the
| two substances in any ratio,


--------
No. I am specifically refereeing to a BINARY MIXTURE of K chlorate and sulphur, I would
broaden this to include binary chlorate mixtures with - phosphorus - antimony sulphide -
realgar - orpiment and ferrocyanides all of which in binary mixtures with chlorate are
suicidal dangerous. However, I may could make allowance for RR torpedoes as sand is inert
and the bicarb in small quantities is only to prevent it from going acid. Speaking of which I
have happened upon a report of a disastrous RR torpedo explosion, its on my things to post list.
--
donald j haarmann
---------------------------------
The explosion removed the windows,
the door and most of the chimney.

It was the sort of thing you expected in
the Street of Alchemists. The neighbours
preferred explosions, which were at least
identifiable and soon over. They were better
than the smells, which crept up on you.
Terry Pratchett
m***@excite.com
2006-09-25 22:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Beg pardon again - but your original post quoted an article in which
the mixture to which the accident was attributed contained "equal parts
of chlorate of potash, sulphur, and oil" (type of oil not specified).

By my reckoning, that's 33-1/3% of chlorate, 33-1/3% of sulphur, and
33-1/3% of oil - you were not "specifically refereeing [sic] to a
BINARY MIXTURE" - were you?

I think it was quite reasonable for me to suppose that you intended to
condemn any mixture involving both potassium chlorate and sulphur, with
or without other ingredients. I'm glad you now acknowledge that you
needed to be more specific.
Post by donald haarmann
|I beg your pardon, but it is NOT a "poor comparison."
|
| Your heading, to wit, "potassium chlorate and sulphur are darwin's play
| things," amounted to an unequivocal condemnation of any mixture of the
| two substances in any ratio,
--------
No. I am specifically refereeing to a BINARY MIXTURE of K chlorate and sulphur, I would
broaden this to include binary chlorate mixtures with - phosphorus - antimony sulphide -
realgar - orpiment and ferrocyanides all of which in binary mixtures with chlorate are
suicidal dangerous.
donald haarmann
2006-09-26 20:42:57 UTC
Permalink
<***@excite.com

| Beg pardon again - but your original post quoted an article in which
| the mixture to which the accident was attributed contained "equal parts
| of chlorate of potash, sulphur, and oil" (type of oil not specified).
|
| By my reckoning, that's 33-1/3% of chlorate, 33-1/3% of sulphur, and
| 33-1/3% of oil - you were not "specifically refereeing [sic] to a
| BINARY MIXTURE" - were you?
|
| I think it was quite reasonable for me to suppose that you intended to
| condemn any mixture involving both potassium chlorate and sulphur, with
| or without other ingredients. I'm glad you now acknowledge that you
| needed to be more specific.
|


--------
I took the liberty of - as it didn't make sense of eliminating the "oil." Though
on further though it may have been linseed or castor oil. Would have made
cleaning the mortar a bitch!
--
donald j haarmann
----------------------------
An explosion may be defined as a loud noise
accompanied by the sudden going away of
things from the places where they were before.
Joseph Needham
m***@excite.com
2006-09-26 21:46:16 UTC
Permalink
A. Lamarre advocated the use of "glu de lin" (inspissated boiled
linseed oil) as a fuel for color compositions in his "Nouvel manuel de
l'artificier" (Paris: 1878, J. Baudry). This practice apparently had
some following at the period in which your quoted article appeared.

It may be of some interest that Dr. W. H. Browne presents a lengthy
discussion of spontaneous ignition incidents arising from the use of
boiled linseed oil in chlorate color compositions on pp. 25-29 of his
book "Firework Accidents" Their Cause and Prevention" (Hull: 1884, W.
Adams).

Given that general news coverage of pyrotechnic accidents was probably
no more accurate in the nineteenth century than in the twenty-first, it
is impossible to say what kind of mixture was actually used in the case
described in the article. A mixture of equal parts of potassium
chlorate, sulphur, and oil would not produce any very identifiably
"colored fire." Perhaps it was to have been a base to which other
ingredients were later to be added.
Post by donald haarmann
| Beg pardon again - but your original post quoted an article in which
| the mixture to which the accident was attributed contained "equal parts
| of chlorate of potash, sulphur, and oil" (type of oil not specified).
|
| By my reckoning, that's 33-1/3% of chlorate, 33-1/3% of sulphur, and
| 33-1/3% of oil - you were not "specifically refereeing [sic] to a
| BINARY MIXTURE" - were you?
|
| I think it was quite reasonable for me to suppose that you intended to
| condemn any mixture involving both potassium chlorate and sulphur, with
| or without other ingredients. I'm glad you now acknowledge that you
| needed to be more specific.
|
--------
I took the liberty of - as it didn't make sense of eliminating the "oil." Though
on further though it may have been linseed or castor oil. Would have made
cleaning the mortar a bitch!
--
donald j haarmann
----------------------------
An explosion may be defined as a loud noise
accompanied by the sudden going away of
things from the places where they were before.
Joseph Needham
r***@bestweb.net
2006-09-26 04:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@excite.com
Your heading, to wit, "potassium chlorate and sulphur are darwin's play
things," amounted to an unequivocal condemnation of any mixture of the
two substances in any ratio,
Is it not possible for a mixture to be "Darwin's playthings", in the
sense that it can separate the careful from the careless?

Don & Mike have been at this for decades AFAICT, The WiZ emphasizing
the danger, and The SWiSH (Darn, that didn't come out as kewl-looking a
name as I'd hoped; guess we'll have to stick to Mike Swisher's real
name.) emphasizing the potential safety, of chlorate-sulfur mixtures.
The WiZ has resorted to sensationalism at times. However, I judge this
subject header not guilty of that charge.

Robert
Kolin Kimbrough
2006-09-26 07:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@bestweb.net
Is it not possible for a mixture to be "Darwin's playthings", in the
sense that it can separate the careful from the careless?
Are you saying only the careless use such mixtures? There are
pyrotechnists that are quite good at what they do that use
realgar/chlorate, sulfur/chlorate, antimony sulfide/chlorate etc. quite
often with a good safety record. Only a fool would call them suicidal,
or "Darwin candidates" simply because these skilled pyros have the
knowledge to put these mixtures (that some are so terrified of) to good
use safely.
The subject line is the usual thoughtless slurr by the anti chlorate
crowd. There is another post by Don buried in the past warning about he
use of barium chlorate for use is green stars, saying something to the
effect that only the unwise would use it for it's sensitivity will
cause a horrific explosion as a result! Needless to say, it is used
safely all the time.
As has been said here, if you're uncomfortable using them, don't! But
keep your mouth shut and don't criticize those that use them for the
effects that call for their use.

Kolin
donald haarmann
2006-09-26 21:01:25 UTC
Permalink
"Kolin Kimbrough" <***@airmail.net
|
| Are you saying only the careless use such mixtures? There are
| pyrotechnists that are quite good at what they do that use
| realgar/chlorate, sulfur/chlorate, antimony sulfide/chlorate etc. quite
| often with a good safety record. Only a fool would call them suicidal,
| or "Darwin candidates" simply because these skilled pyros have the
| knowledge to put these mixtures (that some are so terrified of) to good
| use safely.
| The subject line is the usual thoughtless slurr by the anti chlorate
| crowd. There is another post by Don buried in the past warning about he
| use of barium chlorate for use is green stars, saying something to the
| effect that only the unwise would use it for it's sensitivity will
| cause a horrific explosion as a result! Needless to say, it is used
| safely all the time.
| As has been said here, if you're uncomfortable using them, don't! But
| keep your mouth shut and don't criticize those that use them for the
| effects that call for their use.
|
| Kolin



---------
"Thoughtless slur," hardly. This comps, little used, when used, are only
used because of their extreme sensitivity, (excepting chlorate-antimony sulphide).
Fireworks don't have to be a dying art. As with most things in life you have to
weigh the gains vs. possible looses.

Barium chlorate-shellac star are the gold standard, [ Henry A Webster, III. Spectral
Distribution V. Visible Spectra of Standard and Improved Green Flame Compositions.
NWSC/CR.RDTR-126. ADA 089055. Naval Weapons Support Center 30 June 1980.]

however, their outstanding colour come with great sensitivity, and it is not unknown
to have shells contain such made up start to explode with great violence in the gun.

------------
"Flash compositions of some types will cause explosions in the
lightest of containers even sometimes in just a few turns of paper
but it also happens that these compositions are extremely brisant
and sensitive. Horrifying mixtures of potassium chlorate, pyro
aluminium, sulphur and barium nitrate have been employed and
should be avoided at all costs. Mixtures of the perchlorate, sulphur
and bright aluminium are safer and appear to be used extensively
in the U.S.A. and Japan, but even these would be considered
dangerous by many of us in Europe. In fact the more common
European technique is to use a strong paper tube with a
composition consisting simply of potassium perchlorate and dark
pyro aluminium."

Ronald Lancaster Fireworks: Principles and Practice

-------
Static
Reactions : Pyrotechnica IX April, 1984
donald j haarmann

The report in the Reactions section Of PYROTECHNICA VIII of the death
of Mr. Cost Mifsud which was attributed to his working with a potassium
chlorate-antimony trisulfide salute mixture raises questions as to the
sensitivity of various compositions to static ignition.

There is little in the literature is to the spark sensitivity of pyrotechnic
compositions other than those used by the military. Recently, however,
information has been published on two mixtures used in the production of
fireworks: black powder, and the potassium chlorate-antimony trisulfide salute
mixture.

.......

Potassium chlorate-antimony trisulfide mixtures have long been known to
be dangerous. Faber (1919) points out that ". . . it is also of such
susceptibility that extraordinary care is required in the handling of it, or a
premature explosion may result." K. Lovold and T. Middleton in their article,
"Characterization of the Sensitivity of Explosive Powders to Electric Sparks, a
Proposed Testing Method" (Pyroteknikdagen, 1980, pp. 49-85) noted that ". .
. two of the compositions (2 and 5; 2 - Sb2S3 + KC103,, 5 = Zr + Pb02)
showed high frequencies of ignition for short duration (1-10 microseconds)
sparks with energies in the range of 0.1 - 1.0 mJ . . . Spark energies in this
range would be barely noticeable as static electric discharges from a person."

There would appear to be little excuse to use potassium chlorate-antimony
trisulfide salute mixtures since good substitutes are available. The use of
meal powder and meal powder-type mixtures is another problem and is best
handled by making sure that all guards against the generation of stray sparks
are in place; i.e., non-sparking tools, electrical grounds to all metal in the
shop, cotton socks and clothing, maintenance of high humidity, and not
petting the cat while working!
--
donald j haarmann
---------------------------
"It is essential that persons having explosive
substances under their charge should never
lose sight of the conviction that, preventive
measures should always be prescribed
on the hypothesis of an explosion."
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2006-09-26 21:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by donald haarmann
Barium chlorate-shellac star are the gold standard, [ Henry A Webster, III. Spectral
Distribution V. Visible Spectra of Standard and Improved Green Flame Compositions.
NWSC/CR.RDTR-126. ADA 089055. Naval Weapons Support Center 30 June 1980.]
however, their outstanding colour come with great sensitivity, and it is not unknown
to have shells contain such made up start to explode with great violence in the gun.
I think I need to research that, because I seem to recall that shellac
doesn't sensitize barium chlorate seriously.

I have the tables... just got to get back to the office tomorrow to check
them.

LLoyd
Art Velordi
2006-09-26 21:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by donald haarmann
Barium chlorate-shellac star are the gold standard, [ Henry A Webster, III. Spectral
Distribution V. Visible Spectra of Standard and Improved Green Flame Compositions.
NWSC/CR.RDTR-126. ADA 089055. Naval Weapons Support Center 30 June 1980.]
however, their outstanding colour come with great sensitivity, and it is not unknown
to have shells contain such made up start to explode with great violence in the gun.
I think I need to research that, because I seem to recall that shellac
doesn't sensitize barium chlorate seriously.
I have the tables... just got to get back to the office tomorrow to check
them.
LLoyd
Dr. Haarmann,

Where (if at all) does "Armstrong's Composition" fit in to all this?
donald haarmann
2006-09-27 01:49:46 UTC
Permalink
"Art Velordi" <|
| Dr. Haarmann,
|
| Where (if at all) does "Armstrong's Composition" fit in to all this?
|


---------
Your timing is almost impeccable, your just off by 12 hours or so.
Watch for tomorrows post.
--
donald j haarmann
------------------------------­---
If all the young ladies who attended the
Yale promenade dance were laid end to
end, no one would be the least surprised.
Dorothy Parker
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2006-09-27 12:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
I think I need to research that, because I seem to recall that shellac
doesn't sensitize barium chlorate seriously.
I have the tables... just got to get back to the office tomorrow to check
them.
Hmmmm.... Dr. Shimizu did not include shellac in his sensitivity tables. By
inference, I'd believe he didn't think it was enough of a sensitizer to
include; but I might be reading more between the lines than he meant.

LLoyd
r***@bestweb.net
2006-09-27 02:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kolin Kimbrough
Post by r***@bestweb.net
Is it not possible for a mixture to be "Darwin's playthings", in the
sense that it can separate the careful from the careless?
Are you saying only the careless use such mixtures?
No, only that the careful and the careless can expect very different
results from it.
z***@gmail.com
2017-06-23 22:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Standard Fusee Corp (Orion Safety Products) publishes two MSDS on fusee compositions containing potassium perchlorate, potassium chlorate and sulfur (+ other stuff) mixtures in their fusee products.

One might assume that Orion has figured out how to stabilize potassium chlorate + sulfur mixtures in the manufacturing process. However, I'm not sure.

Perchlorate + sulfur in fusee:

http://www.sjcounty.net/images/stories/documents/MSDS/Fusee.pdf


Perchlorate & Chlorate + sulfur in fusee:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/MSDS/MSDS00052/58421090-20130319.PDF


Fires and explosions at Standard Fusee Corp:

https://www.gendisasters.com/ohio/13042/fostoria-oh-business-explosion-june-1978

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-03-15/news/0103150370_1_easton-orion-talbot-county
Peter Fairbrother
2017-06-24 00:46:51 UTC
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Post by z***@gmail.com
Standard Fusee Corp (Orion Safety Products) publishes two MSDS on fusee compositions containing potassium perchlorate, potassium chlorate and sulfur (+ other stuff) mixtures in their fusee products.
One might assume that Orion has figured out how to stabilize potassium chlorate + sulfur mixtures in the manufacturing process. However, I'm not sure.
People who make matches seem to have (mostly) controlled (per)chlorate
and sulphur, and even (per)chlorate and red phosphorus, mixes.

Here in the UK chlorate and sulphur/red phosphorus mixes are generally
banned, though there is an exception for strike-anywhere matches.
Post by z***@gmail.com
http://www.sjcounty.net/images/stories/documents/MSDS/Fusee.pdf
http://www1.mscdirect.com/MSDS/MSDS00052/58421090-20130319.PDF
The main bodies of railway/road/marine flares are ideally 80% strontium
nitrate with 20% oil-and-sawdust fuel. However such strontium
nitrate/fuel mixes do not ignite or burn well.

So to promote easy ignition and strong even burning, the mix was
adjusted to include about 10% perchlorate and about 10% sulphur.

Nowadays non-perchlorate (NPC) flares are becoming more common, but for
environmental rather than safety reasons. These contain about 20%
potassium nitrate instead of 10% perchlorate.

Chlorates are not usually components of the main body nowadays.

While they burn readily, these mixes will not detonate at all, nor
explode unless strongly confined.

I very much doubt that Orion use potassium chlorate + sulfur mixes, or
even potassium perchlorate + sulfur mixes, in the main bodies in the
manufacture of their flares.

They will probably mix the potassium perchlorate or potassium nitrate
with the strontium nitrate before adding any fuels.


However, the igniters for flares often use mixtures with higher levels
of sulphur and especially (per)chlorate, and these ignition mixtures are
much more dangerous, especially in bulk.
Post by z***@gmail.com
https://www.gendisasters.com/ohio/13042/fostoria-oh-business-explosion-june-1978
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-03-15/news/0103150370_1_easton-orion-talbot-county
"Tyrone Cornel Wilson Sr.,[...] was killed instantly in the ignition
makeup room, where the blast occurred"

-- Peter Fairbrother

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