Discussion:
New club?
(too old to reply)
robgood@bestweb.net
2017-06-16 23:51:46 UTC
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Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
Tom Biasi
2017-06-17 15:00:24 UTC
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Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
d***@gmail.com
2017-06-18 00:51:19 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
Tom Biasi
2017-06-18 02:02:09 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
robgood@bestweb.net
2017-06-18 21:25:06 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it, like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.

Robert
Tom Biasi
2017-06-19 00:05:58 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it, like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
d***@gmail.com
2017-06-22 01:32:19 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it, like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to comply with than NY's for class B.
Tom Biasi
2017-06-22 01:36:04 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it, like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to comply with than NY's for class B.
No civilian fireworks are legal in Jersey not even sparklers.
d***@gmail.com
2017-06-23 02:06:52 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it, like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to comply with than NY's for class B.
No civilian fireworks are legal in Jersey not even sparklers.
I don't see how that's relevant, when this is not about CONSUMER ("civilian") fireworks. The club shoots would work as they typically do, via licensure of "displays" of fireworks, class B, same as the pros. That's how the CMPA & LIPA worked, both at a time when the host state didn't allow consumer fireworks. That's how I would think practically all club shoots in the world work, isn't it?

Robert
Tom Biasi
2017-06-23 02:14:58 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it, like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to comply with than NY's for class B.
No civilian fireworks are legal in Jersey not even sparklers.
I don't see how that's relevant, when this is not about CONSUMER ("civilian") fireworks. The club shoots would work as they typically do, via licensure of "displays" of fireworks, class B, same as the pros. That's how the CMPA & LIPA worked, both at a time when the host state didn't allow consumer fireworks. That's how I would think practically all club shoots in the world work, isn't it?
Robert
I don't know. That's why I asked,"What kind of club?"
Tom Biasi
2017-06-23 03:06:45 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in
southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.)
Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA
did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or
instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it,
like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots
were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton
Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what
purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought
it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning
airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to
use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to
comply with than NY's for class B.
No civilian fireworks are legal in Jersey not even sparklers.
I don't see how that's relevant, when this is not about CONSUMER
("civilian") fireworks. The club shoots would work as they typically
do, via licensure of "displays" of fireworks, class B, same as the
pros. That's how the CMPA & LIPA worked, both at a time when the host
state didn't allow consumer fireworks. That's how I would think
practically all club shoots in the world work, isn't it?
Robert
I don't know. That's why I asked,"What kind of club?"
Oh, BTW I sometimes use the word "civilian" to mean non pros.Just
picturesque speech.
d***@gmail.com
2017-06-24 01:58:13 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in
southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.)
Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA
did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or
instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it,
like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots
were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton
Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what
purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought
it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning
airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to
use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to
comply with than NY's for class B.
No civilian fireworks are legal in Jersey not even sparklers.
I don't see how that's relevant, when this is not about CONSUMER
("civilian") fireworks. The club shoots would work as they typically
do, via licensure of "displays" of fireworks, class B, same as the
pros. That's how the CMPA & LIPA worked, both at a time when the host
state didn't allow consumer fireworks. That's how I would think
practically all club shoots in the world work, isn't it?
Robert
I don't know. That's why I asked,"What kind of club?"
Oh, BTW I sometimes use the word "civilian" to mean non pros.Just
picturesque speech.
I doubt there'd be any distinction in the laws regarding displays between those doing it for $ (pros) and those doing it because they love it.
Tom Biasi
2017-06-24 02:12:57 UTC
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Post by Tom Biasi
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Post by Tom Biasi
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in
southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.)
Anybody interested in joining?
What kind of club?
One that would have shoots several times a year like the CMPA
did. Maybe also get into group construction projects or
instruction like the LIPA did.
This airport is in New Jersey and it's still active.
Yes. It's a short distance from me, so is why I thought of it,
like Maben's Airport in Prattsville, NY, where the CMPA shoots
were. There's another ground fairly close that used to be Newton
Airport (on Stickle Pond Rd.) but is now owned by PG&E for what
purpose I don't know, not evident from looking at it. I thought
it might be easier to deal with a small entity like a functioning
airport than with a big electric utility in getting permission to
use the ground at night, and to situate a magazine there.
Robert
Are you familiar with New Jersey laws regarding fireworks?
Not lately, but I don't imagine them to be substantially harder to
comply with than NY's for class B.
No civilian fireworks are legal in Jersey not even sparklers.
I don't see how that's relevant, when this is not about CONSUMER
("civilian") fireworks. The club shoots would work as they typically
do, via licensure of "displays" of fireworks, class B, same as the
pros. That's how the CMPA & LIPA worked, both at a time when the host
state didn't allow consumer fireworks. That's how I would think
practically all club shoots in the world work, isn't it?
Robert
I don't know. That's why I asked,"What kind of club?"
Oh, BTW I sometimes use the word "civilian" to mean non pros.Just
picturesque speech.
I doubt there'd be any distinction in the laws regarding displays between those doing it for $ (pros) and those doing it because they love it.
Good luck.
b***@gmail.com
2017-06-24 12:38:54 UTC
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Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
There's a big difference in DOT transportation regulations between 'in commerce' and 'not in commerce' regulations.'Not in commerce' transportation doesn't require placarding and excessive insurance.
The best news in machining
2017-06-24 14:21:34 UTC
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Post by b***@gmail.com
There's a big difference in DOT transportation regulations between 'in
commerce' and 'not in commerce' regulations.'Not in commerce'
transportation doesn't require placarding and excessive insurance.
I doubt if transport is the issue. The issue (I'd suspect) is that the
state or local county wouldn't grant a shooting permit to unlicensed
applicants. But if you HAD an ATF license, then most states would impose
the same permit fees and restrictions on licensed amateurs as they do on
professionals.

Transport isn't usually in the Fire Marshal's perview.

Lloyd
robgood@bestweb.net
2017-06-26 18:38:00 UTC
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There's a big difference in DOT transportation regulations between 'in
commerce' and 'not in commerce' regulations.'Not in commerce'
transportation doesn't require placarding and excessive insurance.
I doubt if transport is the issue. The issue (I'd suspect) is that the
state or local county wouldn't grant a shooting permit to unlicensed
applicants. But if you HAD an ATF license, then most states would impose
the same permit fees and restrictions on licensed amateurs as they do on
professionals.
Do those fees apply to "testing"? Since we'd be shooting 1-off devices, seems that's the category of activity applicable. Otherwise wouldn't they have to be off production runs with BE numbers?

So would it behoove us to get licenses individually? If so, probably the cheapest way would be to have a shooter's course as a group. Len Wilcox used to give a course at the CMPA site, but not for club purposes, rather for class A blasting. But a few of the members had their own ATF ticket for shooting.

If not, is it the sort of thing where just ONE licensed shooter needs be present?
Post by The best news in machining
Transport isn't usually in the Fire Marshal's purview.
Strangely, that's what I seem to recall from the copied paper Len Wilcox used to send us. I might even be able to find an old one and review it. I never figured how that'd apply on the Thruway!

Robert
The best news in machining
2017-06-26 19:12:23 UTC
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Do those fees apply to "testing"? Since we'd be shooting 1-off
devices, seems that's the category of activity applicable. Otherwise
wouldn't they have to be off production runs with BE numbers?
I doubt if the locals would see any difference between a 'display' and
fireworks shot for 'testing'. 'You wanna shoot? You pays da license fee!

So far as 'throughways'... I don't know. New Jersey ARRESTS anyone
carrying anything explosive without a DOT permit, even though federal law
permits it _explicitly_ for licensed amateurs (below 500lb). So, I can't
tell you.

Lloyd
d***@gmail.com
2017-06-27 16:22:38 UTC
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Post by ***@bestweb.net
Do those fees apply to "testing"? Since we'd be shooting 1-off
devices, seems that's the category of activity applicable. Otherwise
wouldn't they have to be off production runs with BE numbers?
I doubt if the locals would see any difference between a 'display' and
fireworks shot for 'testing'. 'You wanna shoot? You pays da license fee!
If that's how the other clubs do it, I guess we can do the same.
Post by The best news in machining
So far as 'throughways'... I don't know. New Jersey ARRESTS anyone
carrying anything explosive without a DOT permit, even though federal law
permits it _explicitly_ for licensed amateurs (below 500lb). So, I can't
tell you.
Is the permit a periodic thing, or is a new one needed for each trip? Do you need a CDL as prerequisite? Is the trouble for clubs generally enough to make on-site construction (from non-pyro items) more attractive than gathering with pre-made brought to the site?

Robert
The best news in machining
2017-06-29 11:22:29 UTC
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Is the permit a periodic thing, or is a new one needed for each trip?
Do you need a CDL as prerequisite? Is the trouble for clubs generally
enough to make on-site construction (from non-pyro items) more
attractive than gathering with pre-made brought to the site?
Robert
Robert, for the most part, any hazmat load must have a separate permit
PER TRIP... IF the material is in 'commercial transport', the states
vary in requirements.

For instance, Florida requires NO permit for a licensed amateur to
transport up to 500lb of explosives _within_the_state_. As soon as you
leave Florida, the requirements may change.

As I mentioned before, New Jersey is particularly hard on that. If you
don't have BOTH a CDL, AND a 'purchased' transport permit to carry goods
within that state, you risk arrest and confinement of your vehicle and
load (at great 'ransom' cost). It doesn't matter what your intended
purpose or the origin of the good are.

Hey... states have control over transport -- period. You need to
investigate the state regulations for EVERY state through which you wish
to transport (even legal, licensed, but non-commercial goods).
d***@gmail.com
2017-06-29 14:48:06 UTC
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As I mentioned before, New Jersey is particularly hard on that. If you
don't have BOTH a CDL, AND a 'purchased' transport permit to carry goods
within that state, you risk arrest and confinement of your vehicle and
load (at great 'ransom' cost).
Would it be worthwhile for amateurs to get a CDL for NJ if club shoots are the only thing they'd use it for? Would the CDL & per-tip transport permits apply only to motor transport, or would they be required also for non-motorized transport if it's on or alongside a public road? Depending on where the members are, might it make more sense to either have a single CDL & permit holding member make a single trip picking up everyone's works round robin style & meeting them (or hiring a common carrier), or to do construction at the shoot site?

On-site construction would be nice because we could learn from each other, as we did in Tony's shop at the LIPA. However, for many items it would require members to be there on a lot of days -- making stars, pasting shells in, pressing damp compos -- with drying time in between, and possibly additional trips putting items into a storage magazine once they're dry. And members would need labeled containers to keep their components straight and not confuse them with others'; a member working on a single type of item at home would not get confused as to what's what, usually.

Or would it be simpler to find a nearby site in NY or Penna. & travel there if their transport requirements are simpler or cheaper? I can get to either state in a much shorter drive than it used to take to get to Prattsville. (In fact I've been in both states in the past week.) I haven't looked around yet to see how many hobbyists are in NJ or nearby states. The only reason I was thinking of here was that Trinca Airport (as well as Newton Airport) reminded me of Maben's, and it's walking or biking distance for me.

Robert
The best news in machining
2017-06-29 16:13:19 UTC
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Would it be worthwhile for amateurs to get a CDL for NJ if club shoots
are the only thing they'd use it for?
I cannot speak to that, because I don't know 1) what the 'current' fees are
in NJ for transport permits, and 2) what the club thinks it's worth!

The last time I had a truck impounded in NJ was about 14 years ago. It
cost us more than the retail price of the load to pay all the NJ DOT fines
and then the civilian impound fee to the 'lock yard' that impounded the
truck! AND we had to hire ANOTHER truck and a crew (at Union rates!) to
transfer the goods from the "NJ 'out of compliance' vehicle" to a "NJ
compliant vehicle", before they'd let the goods back on the road.

Lloyd
robgood@bestweb.net
2017-06-30 02:56:01 UTC
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Would it be worthwhile for amateurs to get a CDL for NJ if club shoots
are the only thing they'd use it for?
I cannot speak to that, because I don't know 1) what the 'current' fees are
in NJ for transport permits, and 2) what the club thinks it's worth!
Looks like we're in luck: 21:1A-133 says in part:

"(c) To transport--authorizing the transportation of explosives; provided, however, that no permit will be required where such transportation is not on the highways nor where the articles being transported are of laboratory samples;"

Since these would be one-off experimental devices, they're laboratory samples. The "definitions" section has no special definition of "laboratory samples".

Robert
Tom Biasi
2017-06-30 10:08:31 UTC
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Would it be worthwhile for amateurs to get a CDL for NJ if club shoots
are the only thing they'd use it for?
I cannot speak to that, because I don't know 1) what the 'current' fees are
in NJ for transport permits, and 2) what the club thinks it's worth!
"(c) To transport--authorizing the transportation of explosives; provided, however, that no permit will be required where such transportation is not on the highways nor where the articles being transported are of laboratory samples;"
Since these would be one-off experimental devices, they're laboratory samples. The "definitions" section has no special definition of "laboratory samples".
Robert
Do you really want to play with New Jersey law?
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-01 05:03:17 UTC
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Would it be worthwhile for amateurs to get a CDL for NJ if club shoots
are the only thing they'd use it for?
I cannot speak to that, because I don't know 1) what the 'current' fees are
in NJ for transport permits, and 2) what the club thinks it's worth!
"(c) To transport--authorizing the transportation of explosives; provided, however, that no permit will be required where such transportation is not on the highways nor where the articles being transported are of laboratory samples;"
Since these would be one-off experimental devices, they're laboratory samples. The "definitions" section has no special definition of "laboratory samples".
Robert
Do you really want to play with New Jersey law?
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.

Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?

They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that exemption, I'll see about what change would be needed for it to qualify, or for us to get any other exemption we might qualify for. For example, what if I made our materials part of a course like the chem lab I teach at Sussex Community College? Or even that very course? Maybe those are an example of what is meant by "laboratory samples".

Robert
The best news in machining
2017-07-01 11:24:08 UTC
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They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like
clarif'n on that too.
Robert,
I can't advise on NJ law! You need to find a NJ transporter or
manufacturer of fireworks who's willing, and ask their opinions.

I do know what USDOT considers home-made devices to be, because I had a
need to understand those laws. I took a professional course on it,
involving thousands of pages of textbooks, legalese, videos, and tests...
and thousands of dollars worth of materials.

From that perspective, I'd say 'lab samples' involves the same sort of
quantities and types of materials as what the federal government treats
them for mail and transport... TINY quantities; usually under 200g, of
'new formulations' or materials for other labs to assay. Even small
home-made fireworks do not fit that description. They're 'finished
devices', ready to be fired. Even if firing one could legitimately be
considered a 'test', the devices themselves aren't lab samples, they're
expressly _defined_ by federal law as 1.3G N.O.S. devices, according to
USDOT.

But I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not NJ licensed. I operate in Florida.
You need to find help who knows NJ law inside-and-out.

Lloyd
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-01 16:24:36 UTC
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But I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not NJ licensed. I operate in Florida.
You need to find help who knows NJ law inside-and-out.
But you used to operate in NJ, so I thought you'd know a lot about these things.
The best news in machining
2017-07-01 16:46:57 UTC
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But you used to operate in NJ, so I thought you'd know a lot about these things.
No, I used to transport THROUGH NJ a couple of times a year. Never shot a
show in NJ nor did I ever deliver goods to a customer in NJ.

Lloyd
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-01 22:42:59 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
But you used to operate in NJ, so I thought you'd know a lot about these things.
No, I used to transport THROUGH NJ a couple of times a year. Never shot a
show in NJ nor did I ever deliver goods to a customer in NJ.
Lloyd
Darn, I had you mixed up with the guy formerly from Garden State.
The best news in machining
2017-07-02 00:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Darn, I had you mixed up with the guy formerly from Garden State.
Heh! Santore Fireworks in Florida and Garden State Fireworks ARE
'related'. They're all part of the same family. But although they
cooperate with one-another periodically, they also compete in the same
markets!

<grin> Yeah... we're ALSO 'Santores', but NOT 'Garden State'! <for sure!>

(eh... sorry)

Lloyd
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-03 02:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
Darn, I had you mixed up with the guy formerly from Garden State.
Heh! Santore Fireworks in Florida and Garden State Fireworks ARE
'related'. They're all part of the same family. But although they
cooperate with one-another periodically, they also compete in the same
markets!
<grin> Yeah... we're ALSO 'Santores', but NOT 'Garden State'! <for sure!>
(eh... sorry)
Lloyd
I think you explained that here once, but I can never keep families straight.
Tom Biasi
2017-07-01 15:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
Try putting a handgun on the front seat of your car loaded with blanks
and claim you are going to start races.
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-01 16:26:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
I don't see how wanting to know our legal rights is cavalier.
Post by The best news in machining
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
But the emissions come via the exhaust!
Tom Biasi
2017-07-01 17:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
I don't see how wanting to know our legal rights is cavalier.
Post by The best news in machining
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
But the emissions come via the exhaust!
I have no desire to argue with you. I thought maybe I could save you
some trouble.It appears that I cannot.
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-01 22:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
I don't see how wanting to know our legal rights is cavalier.
Post by The best news in machining
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
But the emissions come via the exhaust!
I have no desire to argue with you. I thought maybe I could save you
some trouble.It appears that I cannot.
You could save me some trouble if you have some ideas about what I should do. Any experience with club matters? NJ would be most helpful of course.
Tom Biasi
2017-07-01 23:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
I don't see how wanting to know our legal rights is cavalier.
Post by The best news in machining
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
But the emissions come via the exhaust!
I have no desire to argue with you. I thought maybe I could save you
some trouble.It appears that I cannot.
You could save me some trouble if you have some ideas about what I should do. Any experience with club matters? NJ would be most helpful of course.
OK, consult an attorney that knows what it would take to do what you
want to do.
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-02 00:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
I don't see how wanting to know our legal rights is cavalier.
Post by The best news in machining
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
But the emissions come via the exhaust!
I have no desire to argue with you. I thought maybe I could save you
some trouble.It appears that I cannot.
You could save me some trouble if you have some ideas about what I should do. Any experience with club matters? NJ would be most helpful of course.
OK, consult an attorney that knows what it would take to do what you
want to do.
ARE THERE attorneys specializing in this? I would think it to be so uncommon as not to support such a legal specialty. When other clubs organize, do they turn to attorneys to get going? I could understand getting the services of one if they ran into difficulty, but not for the initial organiz'n.

Robert
Tom Biasi
2017-07-02 00:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by The best news in machining
Post by d***@gmail.com
I want to take every advantage I can. Same as with taxes, etc.
Like for instance I just brought a car into this state that I'm sure would never pass inspection because of an exhaust hole. However, I was informed by the MVC employee who gave me the registration for it that, because of the car's age, it need not be inspected. I wasn't sure about that from my reading of the laws online, so I was glad to get clarif'n. I'm not about to volunteer for an inspection that's not required, so why would I be any different about any other NJ laws?
They must've meant SOMEthing by "laboratory samples", so I'd like clarif'n on that too. If what I contemplate doesn't qualify for that
Robert
Robert,
Your ignorance of the law and your cavalier attitude will likely get you
in trouble.
I don't see how wanting to know our legal rights is cavalier.
Post by The best news in machining
New Jersey only inspects vehicles for emmission. Your exahust hole would
not even be noticed.
But the emissions come via the exhaust!
I have no desire to argue with you. I thought maybe I could save you
some trouble.It appears that I cannot.
You could save me some trouble if you have some ideas about what I should do. Any experience with club matters? NJ would be most helpful of course.
OK, consult an attorney that knows what it would take to do what you
want to do.
ARE THERE attorneys specializing in this? I would think it to be so uncommon as not to support such a legal specialty. When other clubs organize, do they turn to attorneys to get going? I could understand getting the services of one if they ran into difficulty, but not for the initial organiz'n.
Robert
You could ask an established club.
The best news in machining
2017-06-30 10:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Since these would be one-off experimental devices, they're laboratory
samples.
By definition, if they're explosives (in _any_ quantity, right down to ONE
50mg firecracker), and do not possess a proper EX number issued to the
maker by USDOT, then they are 1.3G explosives N.O.S.

Sorry... that one would never hold water.

Lloyd
d***@gmail.com
2017-07-01 04:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by The best news in machining
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Since these would be one-off experimental devices, they're laboratory
samples.
By definition, if they're explosives (in _any_ quantity, right down to ONE
50mg firecracker), and do not possess a proper EX number issued to the
maker by USDOT, then they are 1.3G explosives N.O.S.
Sorry... that one would never hold water.
Then what does count as a laboratory sample? Does it have to be a part from a larger production run?
Post by The best news in machining
Lloyd
Then help me navigate this statute, because it's awfully confusing when it says that the items regulated in the sections on fireworks (which doesn't reference EX numbers, but simply defines them by their purpose) aren't considered explosives, yet it doesn't say what the provisions are on transportation that DO apply to fireworks. And the Web site for the board in charge of the regulations doesn't seem to flesh that out any further. It just says that transportation of fireworks INTO the state requires permission, but it doesn't say what's needed to transport them if they're already in the state, as for instance if you made them down the block. It's pretty clear regarding explosives, but it says these don't count as explosives.

Robert
robgood@bestweb.net
2017-06-26 18:20:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
There's a big difference in DOT transportation regulations between 'in commerce' and 'not in commerce' regulations.'Not in commerce' transportation doesn't require placarding and excessive insurance.
Good to know. At CMPA we shot a combination of items. Some were purchased on site from Len Thier's truck, which was of course placarded. Others were constructed by us amateurs remotely. We each were mailed a copy of a certificate for each shoot, from a local (to the shoot site) authority, something to do with transport IIRC. None of our works or components were stored on-site.

I don't know whether for the conceived new club we'd focus on on-site construction or finished (or even partly-finished) items brought to the site. It would be good to have capabilities for both.

I'm wondering what it would be like pedaling a placarded bicycle to the site, because that's how close I'd be. Actually with a little greater investment of time I could walk it; wonder if I'd placard my tush, my bag, or what!

Robert
robgood@bestweb.net
2017-07-05 02:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@bestweb.net
Suppose I could start a new club at Trinca Airport near me in southern Sussex Co., NJ. (I haven't even inquired there.) Anybody interested in joining?
Tonight I came upon a group that had set up w generator & lights in an old cemetery even closer to Airport Rd. than I am, and were having a shoot they do there every July 4 because it also happens to be the birthday of one of them. I asked if any of them were into construction, no luck, said they just bought them from Phantom. Phantom must have 1.3g & display racks now! Next year if I haven't gotten this thing started, maybe I'll just contribute some items to this shoot.

My barbecue was disappointing. I'd scheduled it around my friend Ralph's in Newton who thought he was going to have one this weekend, didn't know what day. Wasn't until the night of July 1 that was called off, so I scrambled to invite people, and only Ralph showed up, and then only for what'd been intended as the 1st round of barbecuing before Kathy made him come back, taking care of some biz w Rima. (The names needn't mean anything to you, I just add them for color.) So loads of leftovers. We didn't even get to the chicken & ribs; I'm now cooking meatballs from the ground beef. Steve here didn't even eat the hamburger I cooked because I assumed he wanted one.

Bob

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