Discussion:
Sterine Coated Bright Aluminum
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r***@earthworx.com
2005-07-14 17:55:33 UTC
Permalink
I have some bright aluminum that is de dusted, coated with sterine. It
appears greasy, it is non dust forming. It is in an old skylighter or
Iowa pyro box. So, at one point someone saw pyro with this stuff but
what? 70-30, silver stars, etc.

Is there a way to remove the sterine? Is this stuff useful?

Comets were pumped a while back and they fell apart.

Any comments from someone who knows about this would be great.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2005-07-14 18:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@earthworx.com
I have some bright aluminum that is de dusted, coated with sterine. It
appears greasy, it is non dust forming. It is in an old skylighter or
Iowa pyro box. So, at one point someone saw pyro with this stuff but
what? 70-30, silver stars, etc.
Is there a way to remove the sterine? Is this stuff useful?
Comets were pumped a while back and they fell apart.
Any comments from someone who knows about this would be great.
It sounds like 808. Usually, it takes some alcohol or detergent in the mix
to fight the stearine in high aluminum content formulae.

Nitrate-based comets made with bright flake often come apart for another
reason -- water-induced nitrate reactions with the aluminum. If they get
too wet, or stay wet too long, they'll swell and crack.

LLoyd
r***@earthworx.com
2005-07-14 20:27:12 UTC
Permalink
The comets pumped were .723" x .723" Hardt's number 5 silver, they fell
apart. This stuff looks greasy and is lumpy. I'd like to throw it in
a mix but am concerned about how this aluminum will associate into the
mix.

The mix being

40% perc
60% Bright
+5% dex

Rolled stars.

I could use 35% alcohol in my sprayer. When rolling.

What type of detergent would I use?

The label says Al bright (De dusted) with sterine.

Thanks
Mike Swisher
2005-07-14 20:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@earthworx.com
The comets pumped were .723" x .723" Hardt's number 5 silver, they fell
apart. This stuff looks greasy and is lumpy. I'd like to throw it in
a mix but am concerned about how this aluminum will associate into the
mix.
The mix being
40% perc
60% Bright
+5% dex
Rolled stars.
I could use 35% alcohol in my sprayer. When rolling.
What type of detergent would I use?
The label says Al bright (De dusted) with sterine.
Thanks
I am quite puzzled that a mixture of 40 potass. perchlorate, 60 bright aluminum,
and 5 dextrine, is identified as "Hardt's number 5 silver."

That composition is:

Potass. perchlorate 58
#809 Aluminum 15
#808 Aluminum 15
Red gum 7
Dextrine 4.5

Note indicates that "formula 4 is intended to be dampened with a solution of gum
arabic."

It bothers me when people complain about the performance of a formula and it
appears they have not only not followed the explicit directions but don't even
have the proportions or ingredients right.
Mike Swisher
2005-07-15 02:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Swisher
Post by r***@earthworx.com
The comets pumped were .723" x .723" Hardt's number 5 silver, they fell
apart. This stuff looks greasy and is lumpy. I'd like to throw it in
a mix but am concerned about how this aluminum will associate into the
mix.
The mix being
40% perc
60% Bright
+5% dex
Rolled stars.
I could use 35% alcohol in my sprayer. When rolling.
What type of detergent would I use?
The label says Al bright (De dusted) with sterine.
Thanks
I am quite puzzled that a mixture of 40 potass. perchlorate, 60 bright aluminum,
and 5 dextrine, is identified as "Hardt's number 5 silver."
Potass. perchlorate 58
#809 Aluminum 15
#808 Aluminum 15
Red gum 7
Dextrine 4.5
Note indicates that "formula 4 is intended to be dampened with a solution of gum
arabic."
It bothers me when people complain about the performance of a formula and it
appears they have not only not followed the explicit directions but don't even
have the proportions or ingredients right.
NB - should have been "formula 5..." i.e. the one in question.

-MSS
r***@earthworx.com
2005-07-15 02:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Mike,
I'm sorry I confused you. We tried pumping this al in Hardts number 5
a few months back....723" x 723" comets.
Now....
I'm trying the 60 40 mix. I know its not Hardts number 5.

When we pumped the comets they fell apart.

I havent tried rolling this in the 60 40 mix.

I hope this clearifies things.
Rob
r***@earthworx.com
2005-07-15 02:47:21 UTC
Permalink
I havent tried pumping the 60/40 mix. Nor, rolling..

I havent tried rolling Hardt's number 5 with this AL.
PyroLeo
2005-07-14 21:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@earthworx.com
I have some bright aluminum that is de dusted, coated with sterine. It
appears greasy, it is non dust forming. It is in an old skylighter or
Iowa pyro box. So, at one point someone saw pyro with this stuff but
what? 70-30, silver stars, etc.
Is there a way to remove the sterine? Is this stuff useful?
Comets were pumped a while back and they fell apart.
Any comments from someone who knows about this would be great.
Rob,
That does sound like 808 aluminum and it's good stuff actually. I've
never had any reason to remove the stearin, but you do need to use
enough binder. There's an excellent formula in The Wiz's Formulary
attributed to Dave Mayotte that I use a lot for cores in color-changing
stars. I don't remember what Don called it in the book but Dave named
it "White Electric". It uses 11% dextrin, and 808 bright aluminum along
with coarse aluminum flitters. The stuff is gummy due to the aluminum
and all the dextrin, but actually rolls pretty easily. I normally pump
a bunch of 1/4 inch stars in a star plate then bounce and roll them in
the star roller until they're round. I keep a bunch on hand so I
haven't made any in some time now. Mike Beyer had a similar Italian
formula that used what seemed an excessive amount of wheat paste for the
binder. Of course he was making cut stars, not round stars.

Here's the Dave Mayotte White Electric formula:

54 Potassium Chlorate ***
6 Red Gum
10 Aluminum Coarse Flitters (approx. 14-30 Mesh, not critical)
11 Dextrin (yeah it seems like a lot, but you need it)
19 Aluminum 808 (or other bright aluminum)

*** I'm nearly certain I've made this with chlorate in the past. When I
just looked up the formula in my organizer though, I have it down as
using perchlorate? I may have goofed when I transferred the formula.
If someone has the Wiz Formulary maybe they'd be good enough to confirm
which oxidizer the original formula calls for?


Some notes...
Yes you WILL look like the Tin Man after rolling this comp.
You'll also need to use a good prime if you try to make this the outer
layer of your round stars. As a core or inner layer though, pretty much
any color you roll over it will light them just fine.


Leo
W Klofkorn
2005-07-15 02:14:35 UTC
Permalink
I wonder what ever happende to Dave M.? He was the first guy who showed me
how to ram a spollette among other things. Much water under bridge since
then.
Post by PyroLeo
Post by r***@earthworx.com
I have some bright aluminum that is de dusted, coated with sterine. It
appears greasy, it is non dust forming. It is in an old skylighter or
Iowa pyro box. So, at one point someone saw pyro with this stuff but
what? 70-30, silver stars, etc.
Is there a way to remove the sterine? Is this stuff useful?
Comets were pumped a while back and they fell apart.
Any comments from someone who knows about this would be great.
Rob,
That does sound like 808 aluminum and it's good stuff actually. I've
never had any reason to remove the stearin, but you do need to use enough
binder. There's an excellent formula in The Wiz's Formulary attributed to
Dave Mayotte that I use a lot for cores in color-changing stars. I don't
remember what Don called it in the book but Dave named it "White
Electric". It uses 11% dextrin, and 808 bright aluminum along with coarse
aluminum flitters. The stuff is gummy due to the aluminum and all the
dextrin, but actually rolls pretty easily. I normally pump a bunch of 1/4
inch stars in a star plate then bounce and roll them in the star roller
until they're round. I keep a bunch on hand so I haven't made any in some
time now. Mike Beyer had a similar Italian formula that used what seemed
an excessive amount of wheat paste for the binder. Of course he was
making cut stars, not round stars.
54 Potassium Chlorate ***
6 Red Gum
10 Aluminum Coarse Flitters (approx. 14-30 Mesh, not critical)
11 Dextrin (yeah it seems like a lot, but you need it)
19 Aluminum 808 (or other bright aluminum)
*** I'm nearly certain I've made this with chlorate in the past. When I
just looked up the formula in my organizer though, I have it down as using
perchlorate? I may have goofed when I transferred the formula. If someone
has the Wiz Formulary maybe they'd be good enough to confirm which
oxidizer the original formula calls for?
Some notes...
Yes you WILL look like the Tin Man after rolling this comp.
You'll also need to use a good prime if you try to make this the outer
layer of your round stars. As a core or inner layer though, pretty much
any color you roll over it will light them just fine.
Leo
PyroLeo
2005-07-15 05:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by W Klofkorn
I wonder what ever happende to Dave M.? He was the first guy who showed me
how to ram a spollette among other things. Much water under bridge since
then.
Post by PyroLeo
Post by r***@earthworx.com
I have some bright aluminum that is de dusted, coated with sterine. It
appears greasy, it is non dust forming. It is in an old skylighter or
Iowa pyro box. So, at one point someone saw pyro with this stuff but
what? 70-30, silver stars, etc.
Is there a way to remove the sterine? Is this stuff useful?
Comets were pumped a while back and they fell apart.
Any comments from someone who knows about this would be great.
Rob,
That does sound like 808 aluminum and it's good stuff actually. I've
never had any reason to remove the stearin, but you do need to use enough
binder. There's an excellent formula in The Wiz's Formulary attributed to
Dave Mayotte that I use a lot for cores in color-changing stars. I don't
remember what Don called it in the book but Dave named it "White
Electric". It uses 11% dextrin, and 808 bright aluminum along with coarse
aluminum flitters. The stuff is gummy due to the aluminum and all the
dextrin, but actually rolls pretty easily. I normally pump a bunch of 1/4
inch stars in a star plate then bounce and roll them in the star roller
until they're round. I keep a bunch on hand so I haven't made any in some
time now. Mike Beyer had a similar Italian formula that used what seemed
an excessive amount of wheat paste for the binder. Of course he was
making cut stars, not round stars.
54 Potassium Chlorate ***
6 Red Gum
10 Aluminum Coarse Flitters (approx. 14-30 Mesh, not critical)
11 Dextrin (yeah it seems like a lot, but you need it)
19 Aluminum 808 (or other bright aluminum)
*** I'm nearly certain I've made this with chlorate in the past. When I
just looked up the formula in my organizer though, I have it down as using
perchlorate? I may have goofed when I transferred the formula. If someone
has the Wiz Formulary maybe they'd be good enough to confirm which
oxidizer the original formula calls for?
Some notes...
Yes you WILL look like the Tin Man after rolling this comp.
You'll also need to use a good prime if you try to make this the outer
layer of your round stars. As a core or inner layer though, pretty much
any color you roll over it will light them just fine.
Leo
Hi Warren,
I don't know what happened to Dave Mayotte. We never did see him that
often anyway, but I ran into him at the Livonia Spree display a couple
times. He loves fireworks and makes some nice shells, but it seemed
like he usually had to work when pyro events were happening. I know how
that is myself now. I don't think Dave ever got involved with MPAG. I
haven't been to an MPAG meeting in quite awhile either since they seemed
to always have shoots scheduled when it conflicted with travel for work
or other pre-planned activities. I'll have to ask Jack if he's heard
anything from Dave.

Leo

r***@earthworx.com
2005-07-15 02:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Yes my wife commented about me looking like the tin man...
I'll have to go to my local paint store to see if they carrry full body
paper suites.
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