Discussion:
potassium nitrate - eBay
(too old to reply)
donald haarmann
2007-07-03 22:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Staten Island Man Is Charged in Home Storage of Chemicals By MAUREEN SEABERG
NY Times
Published: June 30, 2007

A Staten Island man with a conviction for wire fraud was charged yesterday with reckless endangerment
after law enforcement authorities found more than 2,000 pounds of chemicals in his home and in a nearby
storage locker during a nighttime raid, officials said.

Miguel Serrano, 57, on the way to his arraignment on a reckless endangerment charge.
Chemicals were found in his home.

The man, Miguel Serrano, 57, pleaded not guilty to the felony charge at his arraignment in Staten Island
Criminal Court yesterday and was ordered held on $250,000 bail.

The authorities said he had been buying the chemicals from wholesalers in bulk and reselling them on eBay.
The chemicals included potassium nitrate, sulfur, hydrogen peroxide and mercury.

The authorities also disclosed that Mr. Serrano had served time in a federal prison in Danbury, Conn., in connection
with a 1980s scheme to defraud the Home Federal Savings and Loan Association of Puerto Rico, which subsequently
collapsed.

Acting on a tip from an Ohio chemical dealer, city police officers and chemists, along with agents from the federal
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, swarmed Mr. Serrano's home at 199 Ada Drive in Graniteville,
Staten Island, on Thursday night and evacuated surrounding homes as a safety precaution. Some of the chemicals,
including potassium nitrate and sulfur, can be used to make explosives.

Although the police said there was no evidence of bomb-making or terrorist activity at the home, Daniel M. Donovan Jr.,
the Staten Island district attorney, defended the raid. "As we learned from the Oklahoma City bombing," Mr. Donovan
said in a statement yesterday, "many chemicals that have innocuous household uses can often be combined to create
powerful explosives when in the wrong hands."

A lawyer for Mr. Serrano, Joseph Tacopina, ridiculed that argument, pointing out that even Home Depot stocks fertilizer
containing potassium nitrate.

"They might as well arrest all the Home Depot employees, too," Mr. Tacopina said in a telephone interview. "The law for a
Class D felony requires 'grave risk of death' - death! What was someone going to get? A rash? This whole thing should
have been dismissed."

At the arraignment, another defense lawyer, Brian King, said the endangerment charge was baseless because the
amount of chemicals stored in the home - about 375 pounds, according to the authorities - was "minuscule." He
accused the authorities of filing the charge in response to broad media coverage of the raid.

"They've charged a D felony because this got a lot of media attention," Mr. King said.

A prosecutor, John Waszak, argued that the chemicals were being taken seriously because they were not in a
safe place. "This was a residential neighborhood," he said.

Mr. Serrano's wife, Maritza Serrano; their sons, Billy and Chris; and a family friend attended the court hearing.
In the courtroom lobby, a worried Mrs. Serrano said her husband was a pastor. "He runs Hands of Hope Church
here on Staten Island," she said. There is no listing for the church on the Internet or in local telephone directories.

A church official on Staten Island who spoke on the condition of anonymity said Mr. Serrano was not ordained, and
had been fired from his job as a math teacher at New Dorp Baptist Church when his previous conviction for fraud
came to light.

Mr. King said Mr. Serrano used the chemicals to teach science to underprivileged children in his ministry.

"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.

"No, sir," Mr. Serrano said.

Besides the chemicals found in the home, investigators discovered 350 pounds of sulfur and 1,470 pounds of
potassium nitrate in the nearby storage facility, on Goethals Road North.

Potassium nitrate, also known as saltpeter, has a variety of commercial uses, including as fertilizer, as a solvent for
cleaning septic tanks, as a meat preservative and in making gunpowder. The chemicals were taken to the Police

Department bomb squad facility at Rodman's Neck in the Bronx, officials said.

The police said it was unclear how long Mr. Serrano had been buying the chemicals.

Al Baker contributed reporting.


----------
I would suspect that if you live in NY City and had purchased KNO3 from him you may expect a visit form da NYPD.

"Licensed chemist"?
--
donald j haarmann
-------------
A woman must always pretend
not to be willing-men must always
pretend no to be aware of the fact.
Hidric Davenport
Joe Smith
2007-07-03 23:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Un-freekin' believable.

Joe
Post by donald haarmann
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.
h***@yahoo.com
2007-07-04 00:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.

What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.

Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.

You may have just missed that point.

Harry C.
Joe Smith
2007-07-04 00:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.

Imagine my surprise.

LOL

Your friend,

Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.
h***@yahoo.com
2007-07-04 01:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Smith
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.
Imagine my surprise.
LOL
Your friend,
Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?

Harry C.
Joe Smith
2007-07-04 03:10:23 UTC
Permalink
My point is that you are nothing more than a clueless idiot, Harry.

And you, the brainchild of the newsgroup, couldn't figure that one out?

LOL

Your friend,

Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Harry C.
DanZ
2007-07-04 03:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Listen, you two love birds:

You two can't let a post go by without flatuating on each other. Give it a
rest. It's old. Very old. Kiss and make up. Make nice. Pretend to make
nice. Or just ignore each other. Or insult each other in private email. Your
dirty laundry has been hanging out here for a long time and we're not
excited by it any more.

-Z
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.
Imagine my surprise.
LOL
Your friend,
Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Harry C.
Joe
2007-07-04 03:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanZ
You two can't let a post go by without flatuating on each other. Give it a
rest. It's old. Very old. Kiss and make up. Make nice. Pretend to make
nice. Or just ignore each other. Or insult each other in private email. Your
dirty laundry has been hanging out here for a long time and we're not
excited by it any more.
-Z
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.
Imagine my surprise.
LOL
Your friend,
Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Harry C.
i would love to know how potassium nitrate can be transformed into a
"HIGH EXPLOSIVE"
h***@yahoo.com
2007-07-04 04:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
Post by DanZ
You two can't let a post go by without flatuating on each other. Give it a
rest. It's old. Very old. Kiss and make up. Make nice. Pretend to make
nice. Or just ignore each other. Or insult each other in private email. Your
dirty laundry has been hanging out here for a long time and we're not
excited by it any more.
-Z
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.
Imagine my surprise.
LOL
Your friend,
Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Harry C.
i would love to know how potassium nitrate can be transformed into a
"HIGH EXPLOSIVE"- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Actually, precisely the same way that potassium chlorate and ammonium
nitrate can. Loosely speaking, they're all called Cheddites
explosives. Essentialy, you combine an oxidizer like KClO3/4 or KnO3
with a hydrocarbon. Kick it off with a small amount of a high order
initiator and a #3 blasting cap, and with 7,000 lbs, you could lose an
entire city block, more or less like what was done in Oklahoma City by
one obscure, insane guy with a grudge (who now, quite fortunately for
all of us, won't be coming down for breakfast, Thank God!)

Of course in many other civilized nations, Tim McVeigh would have been
judged (and quite properly) criminally insane because of the nature of
his acts alone, and spent the balance of his young life in an asylum.
I don't consider that alternative to be mercy.

I have to tell you that the revelation that most of those that
participated in the recent UK terrorists attacks were educated
physicians to be less than astonishing. Earning an MD and licensed to
proctice is no small achievement, and to tarket themselves against the
UK in my mind simply does not compute. These are not stupid
individuals, and yet why??? Precisely who and why are these guys
angry at, and what is the goal of them destroying their lives, and the
lives of their fiends?

I'm confused, but for me that's nothing new.

Perhaps a Moslem in the UK will help to clue me in.

Harry C.











Can I assume that you have never read T.L. Davis' classic book?

Harry C.
g***@yahoo.com
2007-07-05 17:51:24 UTC
Permalink
First things first, Harry. You cannot, to my knowledge, use potassium
nitrate mixed with some other substance to make a cap sensitive high
order explosive. I think you are thinking of ammonium nitrate or
ammonium perchlorate, or even potassium chlorate. If there is a way
to mix KNO3 with something and make it a high explosive I would sure
like to know about it just for the sake of learning.

Now, I have done this: You can take KNO3 (or any other nitrate), mix
it with concentrated sulphuric acid, heat it gently, and the resulting
fumes can be collected and used. The resulting acid is red fuming
nitric acid. The acid can then be combined with sulfuric and the
substance you want to nitrate to sythensize high explosives like
nitroglycerine, nitroglycol, & c. In this guys case, it would take
quite a still to convert all that KNO3 to make the nitric, but I
digress. In addition, he would need to obtain the Sulphuric acid to
make most of the more common high explosives that can be easily made
to match the nitric he made out of the 7,000 lbs of KNO3.

What I find most offensive about your post is the fact that you don't
think this guy should have 7,000 lbs of KNO3 because he MIGHT use it
to "bring down a building". WTF, Harry? Why are you into fireworks
and why do you freely distribute literature when you feel this way
about people?

I and two of my friends, due to the Firefox incident, have puchased
and own over 5,000 lbs of various pyro chemicals which were obtained
at a very good price. These chemicals are stored in an undisclosed
location and my plan is to NEVER buy chemicals again because the
purchase I made was a once in a lifetime opportunity through Service
Chemical and a couple of metal companies. Would you submit that I and
my friends, all PGI shell and rocket competition winners, are
potential terrorists and shouldn't have this much material because a
good majority of it can be made cap sensitive and/or be used for
nefarious purposes?

You are not an asset to this art, Harry. You have the big city
mentality and you are dangerous to freedom. It is people like you
that start the slippery slope to the road to gun bans, fireworks bans,
and chemical bans. You would make a fine ATF agent. You embody what
it means to say "Bans are the argument of tyrants, they are the creed
of slaves...". If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to live in
a free country, that is fine. But don't try to drag us pyros down to
your level of fear and ruin our hobby, Harry, all because of what you
think someone MIGHT do with something.

Joel
A. Ruether
2007-07-05 21:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
First things first, Harry. You cannot, to my knowledge, use potassium
nitrate mixed with some other substance to make a cap sensitive high
order explosive. I think you are thinking of ammonium nitrate or
ammonium perchlorate, or even potassium chlorate. If there is a way
to mix KNO3 with something and make it a high explosive I would sure
like to know about it just for the sake of learning.
I doubt he would be reading a thread with this header but the guy on this
group to ask this question to would be Don Thompson.
H***@AOL.COM
2007-07-05 22:24:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Ruether
Post by g***@yahoo.com
First things first, Harry. You cannot, to my knowledge, use potassium
nitrate mixed with some other substance to make a cap sensitive high
order explosive. I think you are thinking of ammonium nitrate or
ammonium perchlorate, or even potassium chlorate. If there is a way
to mix KNO3 with something and make it a high explosive I would sure
like to know about it just for the sake of learning.
I doubt he would be reading a thread with this header but the guy on this
group to ask this question to would be Don Thompson.
This guy is clearly lieing about his intended usage
Honesty goes a long way in my neck of the woods.
I have delbt with the atf personally reguarding chemicals
Pretty nice folks that can tell the difference between fireworks and
something funny.
I have always been honest.
And even with no licence we still parted ways on a good note.
Besides if your not doing anything wrong then why lie.
Kno3? For high explosives.
I doubt he was going to make h.e.
Although im sure its possible, I doubt it.
Probably hoping to profit off of all of us if there are more chemical
restrictions.
Ebay ... cornering the market..You know.
But $250,000 bail means they know things that we dont.
Either way having 2000lbs kno3 is nut job in my book
And making your distributor so nervous that they turn you into the
feds
Well.....thats something else
I commonly purchase sodium hydroxide for my bussiness.
My distributor would freak out if I ordered 5000lbs
But who knows.
ted
donald haarmann
2007-07-06 00:11:03 UTC
Permalink
<***@AOL.COM>


[snip]

| Besides if your not doing anything wrong then why lie.
| Kno3? For high explosives.
| I doubt he was going to make h.e.
| Although im sure its possible, I doubt it.
| Probably hoping to profit off of all of us if there are more chemical
| restrictions.
| Ebay ... cornering the market..You know.
| But $250,000 bail means they know things that we dont.
| Either way having 2000lbs kno3 is nut job in my book
| And making your distributor so nervous that they turn you into the
| feds
|

[snip]



-----------
My ever useful copy of da - High Times Encyclopedia of Recreational Drugs.
Stonehill Publishing Company, New York. nd.

Sez -

Marijuana Growing - Indoor Garden - Soil Preparation

Marijuana grows best in well-drained, sand soil or a loam, which is high in nitrogen
and potash.



donald j haarmann
---------------------------
You can tell the pyro from
the pot heads by the smell
of their smoke.
Joe Smith
2007-07-06 01:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Don't bogart that joint, my friend...pass it over to me...


Joe
Post by donald haarmann
[snip]
| Besides if your not doing anything wrong then why lie.
| Kno3? For high explosives.
| I doubt he was going to make h.e.
| Although im sure its possible, I doubt it.
| Probably hoping to profit off of all of us if there are more chemical
| restrictions.
| Ebay ... cornering the market..You know.
| But $250,000 bail means they know things that we dont.
| Either way having 2000lbs kno3 is nut job in my book
| And making your distributor so nervous that they turn you into the
| feds
|
[snip]
-----------
My ever useful copy of da - High Times Encyclopedia of Recreational Drugs.
Stonehill Publishing Company, New York. nd.
Sez -
Marijuana Growing - Indoor Garden - Soil Preparation
Marijuana grows best in well-drained, sand soil or a loam, which is high in nitrogen
and potash.
donald j haarmann
---------------------------
You can tell the pyro from
the pot heads by the smell
of their smoke.
H***@AOL.COM
2007-07-06 02:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Smith
Don't bogart that joint, my friend...pass it over to me...
Joe
Post by donald haarmann
[snip]
| Besides if your not doing anything wrong then why lie.
| Kno3? For high explosives.
| I doubt he was going to make h.e.
| Although im sure its possible, I doubt it.
| Probably hoping to profit off of all of us if there are more chemical
| restrictions.
| Ebay ... cornering the market..You know.
| But $250,000 bail means they know things that we dont.
| Either way having 2000lbs kno3 is nut job in my book
| And making your distributor so nervous that they turn you into the
| feds
|
[snip]
-----------
My ever useful copy of da - High Times Encyclopedia of Recreational Drugs.
Stonehill Publishing Company, New York. nd.
Sez -
Marijuana Growing - Indoor Garden - Soil Preparation
Marijuana grows best in well-drained, sand soil or a loam, which is high in nitrogen
and potash.
donald j haarmann
---------------------------
You can tell the pyro from
the pot heads by the smell
of their smoke.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I have know many pot smokers that are high quality people.
I could pass a drug test no problem.
I try to learn from my mistakes.
Besides I like that smell.
g***@yahoo.com
2007-07-06 14:20:02 UTC
Permalink
And that's another thing. Why did the dipshit distributor wait until
he bought the material to turn his ass in? Yeah, he'll sell the stuff
to him, then turn him in. Why not just deny the sale in the first
place if he was "concerned". Fucking asshole.

I hate New York.

Joel
Thomas N.
2007-07-06 17:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
And that's another thing. Why did the dipshit distributor wait until
he bought the material to turn his ass in? Yeah, he'll sell the stuff
to him, then turn him in. Why not just deny the sale in the first
place if he was "concerned". Fucking asshole.
I hate New York.
Joel
Joel,

But how do you really feel??
:) :)

Tom
donald haarmann
2007-07-08 15:36:20 UTC
Permalink
<***@yahoo.com

| And that's another thing. Why did the dipshit distributor wait until
| he bought the material to turn his ass in? Yeah, he'll sell the stuff
| to him, then turn him in. Why not just deny the sale in the first
| place if he was "concerned". Fucking asshole.
|
| I hate New York.
|
| Joel



------------
Ever the possibility that whatever agency the distributor contacted asked
them to ship the order so that they could .........!

"Hate New York?!?" Make an appointment and get in line.
--
donald j haarmann - eminence grise
Prometheus
2007-08-05 01:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
And that's another thing. Why did the dipshit distributor wait until
he bought the material to turn his ass in? Yeah, he'll sell the stuff
to him, then turn him in. Why not just deny the sale in the first
place if he was "concerned". Fucking asshole.
I hate New York.
Joel
If he denied the order, he would not have financially benefited. This
way he makes money of the transaction. Might even be some kinda
gubmint bonus program for turning people in, so he might have profited
coming and going. Denying the order would not have made financial
sense.

Don T.
2007-07-06 12:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Ruether
Post by g***@yahoo.com
First things first, Harry. You cannot, to my knowledge, use potassium
nitrate mixed with some other substance to make a cap sensitive high
order explosive. I think you are thinking of ammonium nitrate or
ammonium perchlorate, or even potassium chlorate. If there is a way
to mix KNO3 with something and make it a high explosive I would sure
like to know about it just for the sake of learning.
I doubt he would be reading a thread with this header but the guy on this
group to ask this question to would be Don Thompson.
I've been reading it. Harry tends to tickle me. He mixes Apples and Oranges
in a blender and comes up with Key Lime Pie. KNO3 falls outside the
parameters for the Cheddite group of HE mixtures. There are a couple of
explosive mixtures one can produce with KNO3 and several which use KNO3 as
one (non explosive but necessary) ingredient of 5+ other ingredients at
least ONE of which is an explosive itself. One of the more curious of those
KNO3 mixtures uses Soda Ash and KNO3 melted together then mixed with another
ingredient while the mass cools but that particular mixture is so dangerous
that it has not seen commercial manufacture since Colonial times. No
directly cap sensitive High Velocity Detonating HE mixtures are found which
utilize KNO3 as the primary, or main ingredient. Even the venerable 75:15:10
Black Powder in reasonable quantities is not boosted in velocity to
detonation using a blasting cap. Enough Black Powder to mass "detonate" will
do so from application of a flame.

I suggest to Harry that he re-read his precious copy of Davis and then
delve VERY deeply into the Picatinny Arsenal Technical Reference #2700. Then
he wouldn't act so like a mouse-attacked female hysteric of movie cliché
fame.
--
Don Thompson

Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "

There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe

It is a worthy thing to fight for one’s freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man’s.
~Mark Twain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
donald haarmann
2007-07-06 20:28:41 UTC
Permalink
"Don T." <-painter-@louvre.org>

| I've been reading it. Harry tends to tickle me. He mixes Apples and Oranges
| in a blender and comes up with Key Lime Pie. KNO3 falls outside the
| parameters for the Cheddite group of HE mixtures. There are a couple of
| explosive mixtures one can produce with KNO3 and several which use KNO3 as
| one (non explosive but necessary) ingredient of 5+ other ingredients at
| least ONE of which is an explosive itself. One of the more curious of those
| KNO3 mixtures uses Soda Ash and KNO3 melted together then mixed with another
| ingredient while the mass cools but that particular mixture is so dangerous
| that it has not seen commercial manufacture since Colonial times. No
| directly cap sensitive High Velocity Detonating HE mixtures are found which
| utilize KNO3 as the primary, or main ingredient. Even the venerable 75:15:10
| Black Powder in reasonable quantities is not boosted in velocity to
| detonation using a blasting cap. Enough Black Powder to mass "detonate" will
| do so from application of a flame.

[snip]



------------
Dropping to DOS and checking a DB. There were several explosives other than BP's that
used potassium nitrate. I doubt they were very powerful, much/ever used.



AMIDOGENE (Gemperle Explosive)
1882
Potassium/nitrate
Sulphur
Bran or Starch
Charcoal
Magnesium/sulphate

BIELEFELD EXPLOSIVE

1896

Sodium/nitrate
Potassium/nitrate
Sulphur
Coal/tar
Potassium/dichromate


BOBBINITE Type 2

1900
Potassium/nitrate
Charcoal
Sulphur
Rice/flour
Paraffin


BRANDEISL POWDER

1900
Potassium/nitrate
Sulphur
Sugar


ASPHALINE No. 2

Asphaline No. 1
Potassium/nitrate


COUIRTEILLE POWDER

1875
Potassium/nitrate or Sodium/nitrate ??
Peat ??
Oily/substances ??
Metallic sulphates ??


TONITE Belgium

1889
Nitrocellulose
Barium/nitrate
Potassium/nitrate

FEHLEISEN (Poudre de) a/k/a HALOXYLINE

1900
Potassium/nitrate
Sawdust
Charcoal
Potassium/ferrocyanide


GRENADINE

1882
Potassium/nitrate ??
Sulphur ??
Benzene ??
Glycerin ??
Ashes ??
Sand ??


HERCULINE

1900
Potassium/nitrate ??
Sawdust ??
Camphor ??

NEWTON POWDER (SAXIFRAGINE)

1862
Barium/nitrate
Charcoal
Potassium/nitrate



NITROPOLENE (Nitropoline)

1900
Potassium/nitrate
Potassium/ferrocyanide
Sawdust


PETRAGITE

1900
Potassium/nitrate
Nitromolasses
Nitrated/sawdust

POTENTITE

PATR-2700 P360 Ign: FUSE? 1900
Nitrocellulose 50-60%
Potassium/nitrate 40-50

RASCHIG WEISSPULVER and RASCHIT

PATR-2700 R117 Ign: UNKOWN 1911
Sodium/nitrate
"Zellpech" 32

"Zellpech" is a pitch obtained by evapg the liquor from the s
ulfite cellulose industry.


SAFETY BLASTING POWDER

1873
Potassium/nitrate
Sulphur
Lampblack
Sawdust or tanbark
Iron/sulphide

SAFETY BLASTING POWDER II

1873
Potassium/nitrate and/or
Sodium/nitrate or Calcium/nitrate
Lampblack
Sawdust or tanbark
Iron/sulphate

SAXIFRAGINE (Pourde de mine de Wynants)

1860
Barium/nitrate
Charcoal
Potassium/nitrate


SCHAFFER POWDER
1863
Potassium/nitrate
Sodium/nitrate
Sulphur
Charcoal
*Seignette's salt


*Seignette's salt -- Sodium/potassium/tartrate


XANTHINE

PATR-2700 X2 Ign: FUSE 1900
Potassium/nitrate 68.5%
Charcoal 4.1
Potassium/xanthogenate 27.4

K xanthogenate prep by adding an excess of K hydroxide and Ca
rbon disulphide to absolute alcohol. Daniel (1902), 812


Pellier Explosive

1884
Potassium/perchlorate
Potassium/nitrate
Sulphur
Fine sawdust
Campeachy weed extract



donald j haarmann
-----------------------------
Whose favorite DOS error
message was :—
" Out of environment space."
LadyKate
2007-07-06 21:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by donald haarmann
donald j haarmann
-----------------------------
Whose favorite DOS error
message was :-
" Out of environment space."
My favorite BIOS error message was something like: "Keyboard Not
Detected - press any key to continue..." There were several versions
of this.

"Out of environment space" is prophetic - "Keyboard not detected -
press any key to continue" is existential chaos.
Tim Williams
2007-07-06 22:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Even today it's not hard to generate the following:
"Keyboard error or keyboard not found -- press F1 to continue"

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Post by LadyKate
Post by donald haarmann
donald j haarmann
-----------------------------
Whose favorite DOS error
message was :-
" Out of environment space."
My favorite BIOS error message was something like: "Keyboard Not
Detected - press any key to continue..." There were several versions
of this.
"Out of environment space" is prophetic - "Keyboard not detected -
press any key to continue" is existential chaos.
J.E.B.
2007-07-05 23:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe
Post by DanZ
You two can't let a post go by without flatuating on each other. Give it a
rest. It's old. Very old. Kiss and make up. Make nice. Pretend to make
nice. Or just ignore each other. Or insult each other in private email. Your
dirty laundry has been hanging out here for a long time and we're not
excited by it any more.
-Z
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.
Imagine my surprise.
LOL
Your friend,
Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Harry C.
i would love to know how potassium nitrate can be transformed into a
"HIGH EXPLOSIVE"- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Actually, precisely the same way that potassium chlorate and ammonium
nitrate can. Loosely speaking, they're all called Cheddites
explosives. Essentialy, you combine an oxidizer like KClO3/4 or KnO3
with a hydrocarbon. Kick it off with a small amount of a high order
initiator and a #3 blasting cap, and with 7,000 lbs, you could lose an
entire city block, more or less like what was done in Oklahoma City by
one obscure, insane guy with a grudge (who now, quite fortunately for
all of us, won't be coming down for breakfast, Thank God!)
Of course in many other civilized nations, Tim McVeigh would have been
judged (and quite properly) criminally insane because of the nature of
his acts alone, and spent the balance of his young life in an asylum.
I don't consider that alternative to be mercy.
I have to tell you that the revelation that most of those that
participated in the recent UK terrorists attacks were educated
physicians to be less than astonishing. Earning an MD and licensed to
proctice is no small achievement, and to tarket themselves against the
UK in my mind simply does not compute. These are not stupid
individuals, and yet why??? Precisely who and why are these guys
angry at, and what is the goal of them destroying their lives, and the
lives of their fiends?
I'm confused, but for me that's nothing new.
Perhaps a Moslem in the UK will help to clue me in.
Harry C.
Can I assume that you have never read T.L. Davis' classic book?
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Maybe MIT educated.
cobalt
2007-07-06 05:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe
Post by DanZ
You two can't let a post go by without flatuating on each other. Give it a
rest. It's old. Very old. Kiss and make up. Make nice. Pretend to make
nice. Or just ignore each other. Or insult each other in private email. Your
dirty laundry has been hanging out here for a long time and we're not
excited by it any more.
-Z
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Harry, you have again completely missed the point.
Imagine my surprise.
LOL
Your friend,
Joe
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Joe Smith
Un-freekin' believable.
Joe
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.- Hide quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure is "Un-freeking" believable.
What it is Joe, if you had followed the developing story on the CNN
Website, he already had 2,000 lbs of KNO3 in his possession, and had
ordered another 5,000 pounds from that outfit in Ohio, that same
outfit that reported him to the feds. His defense now seems to be that
he was only using it to teach science to underprivileged children in
his ministry or to sell on the Internet. Sure, right! 7,000 lbs.
Joe, I doubt if you have the intellect or the appreciation to grasp
this, but it isn't the KNO3 that is the potential community hazard, it
is simply what this person may have mixed with it to covert it into a
high explosive, which is something easily done, just as with potassium
chlorate. Let that concept sink though your dense skull. The risks are
not in something trivial like flash powder, it has more to do with the
risks associated with the possibility that 7,000 lbs. of potassium
nitrate can so trivially be converted into a high explosive and
possibely kill hundreds and topple buildings.
You may have just missed that point.
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Joe, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Harry C.
i would love to know how potassium nitrate can be transformed into a
"HIGH EXPLOSIVE"- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Actually, precisely the same way that potassium chlorate and ammonium
nitrate can. Loosely speaking, they're all called Cheddites
explosives. Essentialy, you combine an oxidizer like KClO3/4 or KnO3
with a hydrocarbon. Kick it off with a small amount of a high order
initiator and a #3 blasting cap, and with 7,000 lbs, you could lose an
entire city block, more or less like what was done in Oklahoma City by
one obscure, insane guy with a grudge (who now, quite fortunately for
all of us, won't be coming down for breakfast, Thank God!)
Of course in many other civilized nations, Tim McVeigh would have been
judged (and quite properly) criminally insane because of the nature of
his acts alone, and spent the balance of his young life in an asylum.
I don't consider that alternative to be mercy.
I have to tell you that the revelation that most of those that
participated in the recent UK terrorists attacks were educated
physicians to be less than astonishing. Earning an MD and licensed to
proctice is no small achievement, and to tarket themselves against the
UK in my mind simply does not compute. These are not stupid
individuals, and yet why??? Precisely who and why are these guys
angry at, and what is the goal of them destroying their lives, and the
lives of their fiends?
I'm confused, but for me that's nothing new.
Perhaps a Moslem in the UK will help to clue me in.
Harry C.
Can I assume that you have never read T.L. Davis' classic book?
Harry C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Maybe MIT educated.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Need to look for the "brown" KNO3, then hit it hard with an MIT-issue
hammer.
b***@hughes.net
2007-07-27 21:07:03 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 3, 5:14 pm, "donald haarmann" <donald-
Post by donald haarmann
Staten Island Man Is Charged in Home Storage of Chemicals By MAUREEN SEABERG
NY Times
Published: June 30, 2007
A Staten Island man with a conviction for wire fraud was charged yesterday with reckless endangerment
after law enforcement authorities found more than 2,000 pounds of chemicals in his home and in a nearby
storage locker during a nighttime raid, officials said.
Miguel Serrano, 57, on the way to his arraignment on a reckless endangerment charge.
Chemicals were found in his home.
The man, Miguel Serrano, 57, pleaded not guilty to the felony charge at his arraignment in Staten Island
Criminal Court yesterday and was ordered held on $250,000 bail.
The authorities said he had been buying the chemicals from wholesalers in bulk and reselling them on eBay.
The chemicals included potassium nitrate, sulfur, hydrogen peroxide and mercury.
The authorities also disclosed that Mr. Serrano had served time in a federal prison in Danbury, Conn., in connection
with a 1980s scheme to defraud the Home Federal Savings and Loan Association of Puerto Rico, which subsequently
collapsed.
Acting on a tip from an Ohio chemical dealer, city police officers and chemists, along with agents from the federal
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, swarmed Mr. Serrano's home at 199 Ada Drive in Graniteville,
Staten Island, on Thursday night and evacuated surrounding homes as a safety precaution. Some of the chemicals,
including potassium nitrate and sulfur, can be used to make explosives.
Although the police said there was no evidence of bomb-making or terrorist activity at the home, Daniel M. Donovan Jr.,
the Staten Island district attorney, defended the raid. "As we learned from the Oklahoma City bombing," Mr. Donovan
said in a statement yesterday, "many chemicals that have innocuous household uses can often be combined to create
powerful explosives when in the wrong hands."
A lawyer for Mr. Serrano, Joseph Tacopina, ridiculed that argument, pointing out that even Home Depot stocks fertilizer
containing potassium nitrate.
"They might as well arrest all the Home Depot employees, too," Mr. Tacopina said in a telephone interview. "The law for a
Class D felony requires 'grave risk of death' - death! What was someone going to get? A rash? This whole thing should
have been dismissed."
At the arraignment, another defense lawyer, Brian King, said the endangerment charge was baseless because the
amount of chemicals stored in the home - about 375 pounds, according to the authorities - was "minuscule." He
accused the authorities of filing the charge in response to broad media coverage of the raid.
"They've charged a D felony because this got a lot of media attention," Mr. King said.
A prosecutor, John Waszak, argued that the chemicals were being taken seriously because they were not in a
safe place. "This was a residential neighborhood," he said.
Mr. Serrano's wife, Maritza Serrano; their sons, Billy and Chris; and a family friend attended the court hearing.
In the courtroom lobby, a worried Mrs. Serrano said her husband was a pastor. "He runs Hands of Hope Church
here on Staten Island," she said. There is no listing for the church on the Internet or in local telephone directories.
A church official on Staten Island who spoke on the condition of anonymity said Mr. Serrano was not ordained, and
had been fired from his job as a math teacher at New Dorp Baptist Church when his previous conviction for fraud
came to light.
Mr. King said Mr. Serrano used the chemicals to teach science to underprivileged children in his ministry.
"Is he a licensed chemist?" Judge Desmond Green asked.
"No, sir," Mr. Serrano said.
Besides the chemicals found in the home, investigators discovered 350 pounds of sulfur and 1,470 pounds of
potassium nitrate in the nearby storage facility, on Goethals Road North.
Potassium nitrate, also known as saltpeter, has a variety of commercial uses, including as fertilizer, as a solvent for
cleaning septic tanks, as a meat preservative and in making gunpowder. The chemicals were taken to the Police
Department bomb squad facility at Rodman's Neck in the Bronx, officials said.
The police said it was unclear how long Mr. Serrano had been buying the chemicals.
Al Baker contributed reporting.
----------
I would suspect that if you live in NY City and had purchased KNO3 from him you may expect a visit form da NYPD.
"Licensed chemist"?
--
donald j haarmann
-------------
A woman must always pretend
not to be willing-men must always
pretend no to be aware of the fact.
Hidric Davenport
Ooooo, potassium nitrate! I wonder whether the chemcops took his
table salt and sugar, too? Deadly things like sodium chlorate and
sugar can be easily made to blow up the Empire State Buliding, or
maybe even the state capitol! For God's sake, let's ban sugar and
salt now...and that deadly di-hydrogen oxide, too. Chemicals! Run
for your lives!
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